Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Robert Poore/archive1

Robert Poore

Featured article candidates/Robert Poore/archive1

Nominator(s): AA (talk) 10:35, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the Anglo-Irish sportsman and military officer Robert Poore. Hailing from an Ango-Irish family of some standing, he was a prolific first-class cricketer who, interestingly, played Test cricket for South Africa. Mostly associated at first-class level with Hampshire, he was known for his outstanding 1899 season when, between June and August he was the highest first-class run-scorer in England and averaged 116.58. In that time he made 304 against Somerset, which was the highest individual first-class score for Hampshire until it was surpassed by Dick Moore's 316 in 1937. His average in 21 innings across the season was 91.23, which was a record average for an English season, that was not broken until Don Bradman averaged 98.66 in 1930, and not surpassed by an English batsman until Herbert Sutcliffe averaged 96.96 in 1931. He was a multi-talented sportsman, having success in polo, tennis, racquets, squash, and was the best-man-at-arms in several of the British Armed Forces Royal Tournaments. He had a long and distinguished career in the British Army, serving in the Second Boer War and WW1 amongst others, and ending his career as a brigadier-general. The article has been reviewed by WP:CRIC members, who have made suggestions. As a sidenote, I don't think we have any Irish cricketers at FA! AA (talk) 10:35, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Drive-by

Because it's come up in an article I'm working on at the moment -- the militia wasn't, technically, part of the British Army, but a separate institution (unlike its successors, the TA and the Army Reserve). UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 15:37, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@UndercoverClassicist: Weren't they amalgamated with the British Army sometime around 1906? AA (talk) 08:21, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes -- reading more carefully, I think you've threaded this needle fine: you have been clear about the distinction between militia and regular service. Might be worth checking whether the militia of the Wiltshire Regiment is accurate, or whether it was a militia battalion under the command of the Wiltshires (but not part of them) -- for example, the Bucks Rifle Volunteers were under the command of the Oxford Light Infantry, but didn't wear the cap badge and were rather protective of their separate identity. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 09:40, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@UndercoverClassicist I've made a slight amendment in the article, linking to the 3rd (Royal Wiltshire Militia) Battalion in both the lede and "Military career" section. AA (talk) 09:37, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think the change has gone slightly the wrong way, unfortunately: if he joined up in 1883, that's before the creation of the TA in 1908, so he would have been part of the Volunteer Force, rather than the British Army, until 1886. That's compatible with the body but not the lead. Being even more picky, in the British military, terms like "3rd (RWM) Battalion" don't make sense without an attached regiment, so you need "of the Wiltshire Regiment". UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 16:21, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Poore began his military service in the Volunteer Force with the 3rd (Royal Wiltshire Militia) Battalion of the Wiltshire Regiment in 1883, before gaining a regular commission in the British Army in 1886." And reads along the same lines in the "Military career" section. Does that make more sense?! AA (talk) 16:47, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that works perfectly. As the Volunteers were (very) part-time, most people who served in them would have either had a day job or been so aristocratic as to not need one: I wonder if we know what else he was doing for those few years? UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 06:30, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

File:Robert_Poore_c1908.jpg: when and where was this first published? Nikkimaria (talk) 04:43, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Nikkimaria: I was absolutely confident it was going to be in The Jubilee Book of Cricket (1897) by Ranjitsinhji, but to my surprise it wasn't. The original upload by User:Materialscientist was taken from Getty, and they haven't provided any authorship or publication information. AA (talk) 08:30, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can a publication old enough to satisfy the terms of the current tagging be found? Nikkimaria (talk) 04:34, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Would any of these images suffice? AA (talk) 12:03, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not seeing publication info on those - is it known? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:43, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

Link first class cricket (I would personally remove "first class" from the opening sentence and then link it on what then becomes the first usage to avoid a sea of blue). Also check it is linked on first usage in the body.
- Done, have removed "first-class" and linked it later on in the lede. AA (talk) 09:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"at an average of 116.58" - link average here rather than on second usage
- Done! AA (talk) 09:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Poore would serve in the Second Matabele War " - why not just "Poore served in the Second Matabele War"
- Done, much more succinct. AA (talk) 09:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"The son of Major Robert Poore senior and his wife, Juliana Lowry-Corry" - I am assuming that was not her surname by the time the younger Poore was born.....?
- They were indeed married by Poore's birth, have added "née". AA (talk) 09:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
" it wasn't until," => " it was not until,"
- Done. AA (talk) 09:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"until, as a subaltern, that he visited India with the 7th Hussars did he realise his love for cricket" - this is hard to read and not grammatically correct. I suggest "until he visited India as a subaltern with the 7th Hussars that he realised his love for cricket"
- Done. Yes, that was a bit of a tongue twister! I have reworded along the lines of your suggestion. AA (talk) 09:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also link subaltern (I for one have no idea what it means)
- Done. A mostly British term for a junior officer. AA (talk) 09:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"he subsequently made his debut in first-class cricket while serving there for the Europeans cricket team" - I would lose "while serving there" as it makes the sentence confusing, and the fact that the game took place in Bombay makes it obvious anyway
- Done. I agree, reading back it is an unnecessary and overly obvious detail! AA (talk) 09:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"which included a maiden century" - link or explain this cricket jargon (I see that "Hundred" is actually linked on the second usage)
- Done. I have linked the first usage and changed "hundreds" to "centuries" to avoid any cross-over confusion for readers not familiar with cricket jargon. AA (talk) 09:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"helped the MCC to an innings victory" - link "innings victory"
- Done. AA (talk) 09:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"The following season, Poore became the highest first-class run-scorer in England" -=> "The following season, Poore was the highest first-class run-scorer in England" ("became" could be taken to mean that he became the highest scorer of all time)
- Done. This reads much better. AA (talk) 09:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Poore's innings was described by the Southern Daily Echo" - newspaper article should be in italics
- Done. Opps missed that :D AA (talk) 09:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Had Poore met with success in these, he would likely have played Test cricket for England....." - did he not then.......?
- He did not, had he done so he would have joined a rather exclusive club at the time. I have expanded the sentence by adding " but no Test cap for England was forthcoming". AA (talk) 09:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Poore played in two matches in the 1906 County Championship,[28] with him scoring a century" => "Poore played in two matches in the 1906 County Championship,[28] scoring a century"
- Done. AA (talk) 09:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"it was said that with his height and massive frame, that when he struck" => "it was said that, with his height and massive frame, when he struck"
- Done. AA (talk) 09:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"he was a first-rate swordsman, polo, tennis, racquets, squash, and shot player" => "he was a first-rate swordsman, and polo, tennis, racquets, squash, and shot player" (current wording indicates that he was a first-rate polo)
- Done. AA (talk) 09:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"1898, 1899, 1906, and 1907 Royal Navy and Military Tournament's" - no reason for apostrophe in tournaments
- Done. AA (talk) 09:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's what I got :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:06, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @ChrisTheDude:. I have addressed your suggestions :) AA (talk) 09:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - nice one :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:35, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]