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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Lake Street Transfer station/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 20 December 2022 [1].


Nominator(s): – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 18:05, 30 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The previous FAC of this article failed due to sourcing issues; it appears that Chicago-L.org, while certainly adequate for DYKs and GAs, should not form the basis of an FA, something I can completely understand and appreciate. While I couldn't completely eradicate its use in this article (as I said I wouldn't be able to at the close of the first FAC), I got it down for use as a supplemental "commentary" source that I think it is suited for. More importantly, I turned towards seven book sources that were varied and ranged in time from 1895 to 2007, and was able to add some more and more detailed information on this old early-20th century double-decked rapid transit station. I'll ping @Steelkamp, Dudley Miles, Your Power, Lost on Belmont, Kew Gardens 613, and ZKang123: from the first FAC; this should also be of interest To editors Cards84664 and TheCatalyst31:.

For those not at the first FAC, this was a double-decker transit station on the Chicago "L" from 1913 to 1951. Both lines had been constructed in the 1890s, but didn't merge operations until 1913 or constructed the transfer until then. The upper station's line was replaced by a subway in 1951, which took it closer to downtown. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 18:05, 30 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

EDIT: I forgot to mention, but as in all of my FACs, please feel free to make minor tweaks and adjustments to the article yourself rather than bring them up in the course of your review. Thank you! – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 21:10, 30 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by TAOT

[edit]
Hi, I'll be doing a prose review. I have an FAC up myself if you're interested in reviewing, but it's optional.

Lead

  • The Lake Street Transfer was a rapid transit transfer station This is nitpicking, but should it be The Lake Street Transfer, or just Lake Street Transfer? Also, should we use the full "Lake Street Transfer station" name in the first sentence?
    • Station nomenclature was rather fluid on the Chicago "L" in the first half of the 20th century (see Congress Terminal for another example); the 1916 Chicago Tribune referred to it as the Lake street transfer point (capitalization and "the" original), and the paper referred to it again as the Lake street transfer station (ditto) in 1935. For its part, the CTA itself referred to it also as the Lake Street transfer station in a 1951 retrospective (all of these sources are cited in the article, btw). I don't feel like having a whole footnote and nomenclature would be helpful, but I've put "Lake Street Transfer station" in bold for now in respect of its contemporaneous usage, even if modern Chicago doesn't use "station" at the end of its station names. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 23:25, 6 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • It might be a good idea to link transfer station via a pipe to Interchange station. You and I know what it means, but someone not familiar with trains may not. If you do this, I'd also move the rapid transit link elsewhere to avoid SEAOFBLUE issues.
  • Nitpicking again, but It existed from 1913 to 1951, when it was rendered obsolete by the construction of the Dearborn Street subway. isn't strictly correct, because the station existed until its demolition later in the 1950s. It would be correct to say it was open during those dates.
  • The site of the station later served as the junction of the Paulina Connector to the Lake Street Elevated shouldn't this be "the junction of the Paulina Connector and the Lake Street Elevated"?
  • I suggest putting all the details on station layout into a distinct paragraph. I'd personally make the first paragraph discuss the station's opening, closing, and location. Second and third paragraphs the same as they are now, and a fourth paragraph discussing the station layout. This would roughly mirror the sections in the body.

Images and infobox

More comments will come soon. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 17:02, 6 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wood Station

Lake station

  • No comments here.

Transfer station

  • The Logan Square branch would not begin skip-stop until the opening of the Dearborn Street subway and the closing of the transfer in 1951. This kind of jumps ahead of the next section, where the Dearborn Street subway is introduced to the reader with appropriate background and context. I suggest changing this to simply say that the station never had skip-stop service. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 20:59, 7 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Dearborn Street subway

Station details

Operations and connections

Harry

[edit]
  • Lake Street Transfer was double-decked, with the Metropolitan's tracks and station being located immediately above the Lake Street's tracks and station clunky use of "with" to connect two facts. You could just lose the "with" and the "being" to improve flow and make the sentence grammatical.

Other than that, support on prose. I don't know enough about the subject matter to offer an opinion on sourcing and comprehensiveness. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:24, 20 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by a455bcd9

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What's the reliable source of the map? A455bcd9 (talk) 21:52, 30 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

[edit]
  • For the Transfer station map, even as a person with normal vision I'm finding it hard to distinguish the Logan Square and Loop markers. Can this be improved wrt MOS:COLOUR?
    • I have reverted the edit to the original SVG, which I think is also better to show the new routing that replaced the old one.
      • I have gone back to the interactive map, this time with a depiction of the post-1950s routing in question. Unfortunately, I still don't know how to change the line colors from their Commons-data default, so the current suboptimal color scheme has stuck. I hope this isn't too big a deal, but if it is I'm sure someone with more experience with Commons/Wikidata/OpenStreetMaps can assist in changing the line colors. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 23:29, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I have sent a request there, hopefully it won't take too long. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 02:02, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

[edit]

Footnote numbers refer to this version.

Sources are reliable and links all work. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:43, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pass. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:38, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@FAC coordinators: I apologize if this is an overstep, but this is getting near the bottom of the FAC queue, has multiple supports, and has passed the source review, so I believe there is some consensus for promotion. The main stopping point, in my view, is the image review. @Nikkimaria: I am aware of the suboptimal map coloring, and have requested attention to it, but just as I feared/expected it does not appear to be coming in the short-term future (I can ask the help desk if you feel that is appropriate and more expeditious). Are there any other concerns that would derail (pun intended) this FAC's image review? Thanks! – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 05:01, 15 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It has two general/prose supports. It needs at least one more to even be considered for closure. (Leaving aside the image review.) I has already been added to Urgents. You may wish to consider putting out some neutrally phrased requests for further reviews. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:14, 15 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Mike Christie

[edit]

I've copyedited a little; please revert if I screwed anything up.

  • "The Lake Street Transfer station was a rapid transit station on the Chicago "L", serving as a transfer station between its Lake Street Elevated and the Logan Square branch of its Metropolitan West Side Elevated Railroad." I can see that "its Metropolitan West Side Elevated Railroad" means 'the Chicago "L"'s Metropolitan West Side Elevated Railroad', but for "its Lake Street Elevated" shouldn't we have a noun like "branch" or "railroad" after "Elevated"? Or is this normal usage in Chicago?
  • "The merger of the stations was a legal obligation to the Lake Street Elevated's owner when the four companies that had formed the Chicago "L" merged operations in the early 1910s, and involved its closing of Wood station and building a station at the site of its transfer with the Metropolitan." It looks to me as if you say "the Lake Street Elevated's owner" to avoid having to mention the name change to the C&OP in the lead, which is reasonable. However, it makes this confusing to read. Having read the relevant details in the body of the article, how about "The four companies that had formed the Chicago "L" merged operations in the early 1910s, and a condition of the merger was that a station was required to be built at the site of the Lake Street Elevated's transfer with the Metropolitan, replacing Wood station."?
  • "newfangled" is a bit too judgemental for encyclopedic tone.
  • "similar to how the State Street subway supplements the earlier elevated North Side main line": suggest "in the same way that the State Street subway provides access to the earlier...".
  • "the Logan Square branch south of Damen would be closed after the subway opened": suggest "...after the Dearborn Street subway opened".
  • I think some of the material in the last two paragraphs of the "Dearborn Street subway, closure, and demolition" section relating to the Paulina connector is a bit far afield from the topic of this article, and given that we have an article about the Paulina connector, perhaps we can shorten these paragraphs a bit?

Generally looks very clean. The history section is complicated and I had to read it two or three times to feel confident I had the gist, but there's not much that can be done about that. I thought of asking for more maps but I think it's just a general knowledge of the Chicago area that's needed to make this easy to read. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:33, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:30, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by FrB.TG

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I don't know much about trains so this review is from a layman's perspective.

  • The second paragraph frequently uses passive voice - three consecutive sentences with had been. Can you vary a little?
  • "Reincorpoated as the Lake Street Elevated Railroad Company on August 24, 1892, to avoid legal issues,[5] its line, the Lake Street Elevated, commenced revenue operations at 5 a.m. on November 6, 1893, between California station and the Market Street Terminal." Too many commas here.
  • Stations in between Pulaski and the Loop, exclusive, became either "A" or "B" - I don't quite understand the meaning of exclusive here. Does it mean that the becoming of A or B was exclusive to these stations?
  • "Originally included in the petition was a proposal" -> "The petition originally included a proposal" (simplified)
  • "he Wood station had two station houses, one on each platform, designed in a "gingerbread" Queen Anne style, similar to the other stations on the route and the surviving station houses at Ashland." Rather repetitive with four instances of station in one sentence.
  • "Like the rest of the station, the tracks were double-decked in relation with one another, with the Metropolitan's tracks being above the Lake Street's tracks." tracks.. tracks.. tracks

My comments are mostly minor and focused on the language. FrB.TG (talk) 06:42, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Good work. If you can spare some time, I would appreciate comments on my FAC but it's obviously in no way obligatory. FrB.TG (talk) 14:20, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.