Wikipedia:XfD today

This page transcludes all of the deletion debates opened today on the English-language Wikipedia, including articles, categories, templates, and others, as a convenience to XfD-watchers. Please note that because this material is transcluded, watchlisting this page will not provide you with watchlist updates about deletions; WP:DELT works best as a browser bookmark checked regularly.

Speedy deletion candidates

Candidates for speedy deletion

Draft:Abdul Baseer Khan Muhammad Sadiq Mehboob

User:Azizulhakimrafi/sandbox

Buck Arnold

Template:Country data GENEVE

Filmfare Award for Best Choreographry – South

Mukesh Pandey

Parashuram Dham

Rony Tan

Ryu, the Runner

Wikipedia talk:Sockpuppet investigations/ElGoblino88

Draft:Sussyshiba

Wadanohara and the Great Blue Sea

Articles

Guide to deletion

Akash Ambani

AfDs for this article:

• Articles for deletion/Akash Ambani
• Articles for deletion/Akash Ambani (2nd nomination)
• Articles for deletion/Akash Ambani (3rd nomination)

Akash Ambani (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Article failes WP:GNG, I did WP:BEFORE but couldn't find anything of note. This article was recreated a month or two after the last AfD. Recently it was made into a redirect and an IP editor reverted claiming that the last AfD was not a delete but a no consensus. This is not true, the last AfD was a delete, the current article does not meet pass notability. Dr vulpes (Talk) 05:57, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

I did not see the second AfD where it ended as a no consensus. Dr vulpes (Talk) 05:59, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

• Keep passes WP:GNG the subject has received coverage particularly after he became the chairman of Reliance JIO India's largest telecom company and one of the most important corporate positions in India. It is the third largest mobile network operator in the world. Note the coverage listed below about the subject is due to the fact he is the Chairman of Reliance JIO not because of his being Mukesh Ambani's son and hence WP:NOTINHERITED does not apply here.Further How one becomes Chairman or President or director is not a concern as far notability is concerned Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 06:07, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Hildi

Hildi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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No sources on page, fails WP:GNG. benǝʇᴉɯ 04:54, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

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Rachel Adams

Rachel Adams (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Only one reference on the page and it's a dead link to a bio of her from the government organization she works for. A quick search shows a decent amount of articles about and by a South African woman named Rachel Adams regarding AI (here, here, and here) but this seems to be a completely different woman who just happens to share a name and nationality. benǝʇᴉɯ 04:30, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

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• Speedy Keep She doesn't "work for a government organization", she's an elected member of the National Assembly of South Africa, the parliament of South Africa. Easily meets WP:NPOL. Quite easy to find the correct link. AusLondonder (talk) 04:55, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Al Ramli Mall

Al Ramli Mall (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Shopping mall in Bahrain fails WP:GNG. GTrang (talk) 04:59, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:52, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

• Delete was not able to find anything of note about this building. Dr vulpes (Talk) 05:39, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Prometheus Society

AfDs for this article:

• Articles for deletion/Prometheus Society
• Articles for deletion/Prometheus Society (2nd nomination)

Prometheus Society (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Does not meet WP:GNG. No WP:SUSTAINED WP:INDEPTH WP:DIVERSE coverage in reliable sources independent of the subject Polygnotus (talk) 03:23, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

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The Prometheus Society has been active for over 40 years. It has had hundreds of members, and its journal, Gift of Fire, has had over 200 issues printed. Every article I know of that discusses high IQ societies more selective than Mensa mentions it. There's no other high IQ society more selective than Mensa which is better known, with the possible exception of Mega. Promking (talk) 06:44, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

The Prometheus Society holds a prominent place in the history of high IQ societies. It accepts people who have an IQ at the 4 sigma level, with a minimum IQ of 164. As stated, this is the best known IQ society above the Mensa level. I've been a member for many years. 2604:2D80:A682:5800:E0EE:FD15:96AA:925A (talk) 18:54, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Check out WP:GNG. Polygnotus (talk) 21:05, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:43, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. This article has been brought to AFD before so Soft Deletion is not an option.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:47, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Laboratory for Energy-Related Health Research Superfund Site

Laboratory for Energy-Related Health Research Superfund Site (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails to establish notability. None of the article's sources appear independent of the subject, and are thus not reliable enough to support a claim of notability. A quick check before the nomination did not turn up any other sources with significant coverage which would help. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 03:16, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

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• Courtesy ping for AfC reviewer Garsh2. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 03:45, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

• Keep: The following articles exist:[1] [2][3]. The first two constitute significant coverage. The third is a passing mention but worth noting nonetheless. Additionally, I would argue some the government sources in the article may be secondary, as well as number 5. Garsh (talk) 21:54, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

  @Garsh2: I saw the California Aggie article in my search but did not mention it here as that publication is a campus newspaper run by students at UC Davis; see their Instagram profile. The Sacramento Bee article looks good, but I'm highly skeptical of the reliability of ToxicSites (citation 5), and I'm not sure if the government sources are independent enough to count towards notability as the site seems to be managed by the US Department of Energy. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 17:33, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

  @Garsh2: One more ping since we're on the second relist now. Are you inclined to reconsider your !vote based on my source analysis? Are there any other sources that might support a notability claim? —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 04:09, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:42, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:46, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Indianola Records

Indianola Records (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NCORP, which is the applicable SNG rather than WP:MUSIC, because it's a company. Graywalls (talk) 01:59, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Already PROD'd so not eligible for Soft Deletion
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Hatay, Konak

Hatay, Konak (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Tagged unsourced in 2009 and does not seem to be notable. Konak article exists so maybe this one not needed Chidgk1 (talk) 16:46, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

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• Speedy keep: See [4], [5] for instance, but even without these, it should be speedily kept based on WP:NTOWN. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 01:19, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

So is ‘’semt’’ still a legally recognized subdivision of “ilçe”?Chidgk1 (talk) 05:22, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Definition of a "semt" can be informal, but Hatay in İzmir as a city center is well-recognized even if it does not have official boundaries. The Konak municipality has a center there, public transit stations, events, etc... Within the "semt", there are lots of officially recognized "mahalle"s, each of which can have their own articles, according to WP:NTOWN. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 06:57, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

So I can create an article about any “mahalle” I like without any sources at all? Chidgk1 (talk) 07:20, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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• Weak delete - Only two sources have been found so far, and as these are both the same publication, they count as one. A moot point as the second source is a passing mention. The first is a little better, suggesting the subject is a large district, but the discussion above suggests that the description is an informal one. Yet if we had multiple independent reliable secondary sources with significant coverage of the locality, the legal status would be irrelevant. I would move to keep if more and better sourcing could be found. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 18:17, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, TarnishedPath^talk 03:12, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

• Comment: Some coverage from a local newspaper columnist: [6]. I am still convinced the article should be kept per WP:PRESERVE, and many more sources can be found (books, travel guides, print archives, etc...) TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 03:30, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Gao Village

Gao Village (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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WP:BEFORE shows that this is barely mentioned in reliable sources which is not enough to pass WP:SIGCOV. There may be other elements of the novel that could be notable but this is a very minor element. Jontesta (talk) 02:21, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

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List of Mysticons characters

List of Mysticons characters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Non-notable list without WP:SIGCOV. The only sources are database style notes about the cast. WP:ATD would be to redirect this to a section in Mysticons. Jontesta (talk) 02:17, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

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List of characters in Monarch of the Glen

List of characters in Monarch of the Glen (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Non-notable list of characters that is completely unreferenced. WP:SIGCOV could not be found. Jontesta (talk) 02:14, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

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Xandar

Xandar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Non-notable concept that does not have WP:SIGCOV based on a WP:BEFORE search where this is barely mentioned. Jontesta (talk) 02:12, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

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• Redirect to Nova Corps - Its only notability is being the home world of the Nova Corp, and all of the essential information on the planet is already covered at that article. Per WP:NOPAGE the two topics should very obviously be covered under the same topic rather than being split out into two redundant articles. Rorshacma (talk) 05:01, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Oa (comics)

Oa (comics) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Non-notable concept that's improperly sourced, without meeting definition of WP:SIGCOV. Jontesta (talk) 02:09, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

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Phantom Zone

Phantom Zone (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Non-notable concept largely unsourced, or sourced to unreliable / non-independent sources. Jontesta (talk) 02:06, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

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Matthew Livingston

Matthew Livingston (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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An unsourced article that appears to have been created and largely edited by a WP:SPA. It seems to be simultaneously trying to cover the fictional character, the series of books they appear in, and the author, and all three of those things appear to fail the WP:GNG. Searches for the character and the books turned up no coverage or reviews that I could find in reliable sources, and searches for the author only turned up a few brief mentions as an "acknowledgement" in a couple other books. Rorshacma (talk) 01:08, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

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Comment I was able to find the author's About page on Amazon. dunno if this counts as a reliable source though. [7]https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B002BLWHAM/about Bluepotato81 (talk) 01:51, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Argentina women's national under-18 softball team

Argentina women's national under-18 softball team (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Subject does not meet the WP:NORG or WP:GNG due to a lack of WP:SIGCOV. Let'srun (talk) 00:52, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Part of a bundled nomination (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Singapore women's junior national softball team) so it can not be Soft Deleted.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:30, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Grange Road, Adelaide

Grange Road, Adelaide (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:GEOROAD. Most of the references are simply maps like https://location.sa.gov.au/ . LibStar (talk) 00:55, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Transportation and Australia. LibStar (talk) 00:55, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
• Keep article about a major arterial road in western Adelaide. It is also part of a set of Adelaide roads. The article has existed for over six years with no concern. Scott Davis ^Talk

"The article has existed for over six years with no concern" is not an argument for keeping. LibStar (talk) 00:51, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:18, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

• Keep per above. Bduke (talk) 00:48, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

  See WP:PERX. LibStar (talk) 00:53, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

• Comment 2 sources were added since nomination, however I don't see evidence of third party coverage to meet GNG. LibStar (talk) 00:53, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
• Keep article as per norm Tesleemah (talk) 03:11, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
• Keep: Enough sources exist to meet GEOROAD. ([8][9][10]) GMH Melbourne (talk) 03:13, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

  I will assume 1 and 3 are indepth as they are behind a paywall. Source 2 above is a 1 line mention of Grange Road. LibStar (talk) 04:06, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

  FYI — the articles are accessible via an Apple News subscription. 1 mentions Grange Rd quite a bit throughout the article and is even in the headline. There a four mentions of Grange Rd in 3. GMH Melbourne (talk) 00:21, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

• Delete I'm not seeing anything which could be described as significant coverage on the page and I'm not finding much else which could be considered. JMWt (talk) 17:59, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
• Keep Most of the references are simply maps like https://location.sa.gov.au/ ....and this particular reference holds multiple overlays containing relevant information to verify this road's location and councils responsible for it, amongst many other features: these sources are both reliable and from the state's own government department. Certainly there is more room for improvement and for a better variety of sources, but I don't believe it's a reason for deletion. Enough attention might encourage more contributions to invoke WP:HEY if it's not already there Lordstorm (talk) 05:11, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. There is a clear consensus here to Keep but I'm unsure if the existing sources can justify this closure. Can editors who want this article Kept do a little digging for some reliable secondary sources? If this road is that important, they should be out there.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:25, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

List of political movements named after dates

List of political movements named after dates (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Per WP:NOTDIRECTORY, does not meet WP:SALAT as it is too trivial Bluepotato81 (talk) 00:08, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

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Files

File:Mina 1964.JPG

File:Mina 1964.JPG (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Jaan (notify | contribs | uploads | upload log). 

Should be in the public domain in the US as "simple photograph" per Italian law. George Ho (talk) 01:46, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

File:Mina at home.jpg

File:Mina at home.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Jaan (notify | contribs | uploads | upload log). 

Should be in the public domain in the US as "simple photograph" per Italian law. George Ho (talk) 01:46, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Categories

Category:Labor disputes in Luxembourg

• Propose deleting Category:Labor disputes in Luxembourg (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Only article in this category is about a trade union not a specific dispute and which is already appropriately categorised. AusLondonder (talk) 06:02, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Category:Labor disputes in Vatican City

• Propose deleting Category:Labor disputes in Vatican City (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Only article in this category is Association of Vatican Lay Workers, which is about a trade union not a specific dispute and which is already appropriately categorised. AusLondonder (talk) 05:52, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Category:Jewish American legal scholars

• Propose merging Category:Jewish American legal scholars to Category:Jewish American academics
• Propose merging Category:Jewish legal scholars to Category:Jewish scholars

Nominator's rationale: We really don't need to intersection ethnicity/religion with area of scholarship. The category creator needs to review WP:EGRS.Mason (talk) 03:45, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

• Merge, trivial intersection. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:09, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose - Oy veh. All I can say is, "trivial intersection" my tuchus. Please excuse my French, I mean Yiddish. ;)

Seriously, though - are you guys totally unaware that Jewish legal scholarship stretches back centuries? (Actually, millenia.) It is deeply embedded in Jewish culture, outlook and ethos - and intertwined with Western legal history. So it's not in the least surprising that there are so many Jewish people among the ranks of Category:American legal scholars - and that so many of the most well-known and widely cited American legal scholars are Jewish.

Here is a small selection of the "google blurbs" that turned up when I googled "Jewish legal scholars history", which should give you a sense of what I'm alluding to:

• Jewish Law and American Law, Volume 2 - Academic Studies Press

Through careful comparative analysis, the essays also turn to Jewish law to provide insights into substantive and conceptual areas of the American legal system, ...

• The Hebrews and the Foundation of Western Law

Starting as early as the second century A.D., Jewish scholars attempted to compile a code of laws from the Torah and other sources, which would assemble all ...

• The Hidden Influence of Jewish Law on the Common Law Tradition

As Christian scholars sought contacts with Jewish intellectuals in order to...

• Jewish Law: A Very Brief Account - David D. Friedman

Jewish law may be the best recorded legal system in the history of the world; there are hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of pages of surviving ...

• Oxford University Press - An Introduction to the History and Sources of Jewish Law

Jewish law has a history stretching from the early period to the modern State of Israel, encompassing: the Talmud, Geonic, and later codifications. // :Instead, the work would take a broader view and include material from the Dead Sea Scrolls, Hellenistic Egypt, Roman law, the Samaritans and the Karaites

• Jewish Law Research Guide | University of Miami School of Law

The Post-Talmudic legal scholars are separated into three historical sub-periods: geonim (700-1050), reshonim (1050-1599), and aharonim (1600-today).

In closing, I've now added 15 more articles to this category, and there are scores more that can be added. Which reminds me: I also created Category:African-American legal scholars a few years back, which now has 42 articles. Like their Jewish counterparts, they bring their own outlook and ethos with them when they engage in legal scholarship. And lastly, I just created the "missing" parent cat, Category:Jewish legal scholars. There are scores of articles about non-American Jewish legal scholars waiting to be added. Anomalous+0 (talk) 11:34, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

• Request:Please review Wikipedia:Categorizing articles about people. It will help you make more effective arguments. Also please don't create categories mid-cfd. I've adding the newly created category to the nomination. AND, please don't conflate Israeli legal scholars with Jewish legal scholars. I am aware of the intersection, but I do not think it counts at the intersetion of nationality+those things. @Anomalous+0 and Marcocapelle: per updated nom. Mason (talk) 15:49, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

  Merge per nom. I also agree with the Israeli/Jewish conflation. Being Israeli doesn't mean a person is Jewish and vice versa. We should avoid that. Omnis Scientia (talk) 19:17, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

  @Smasongarrison, I just noticed that you're merging Category:Jewish legal scholars into itself. May need to fix that! Omnis Scientia (talk) 09:09, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

  oops! Should be to the parent categoryMason (talk) 12:00, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

• Merge The "American" aspect makes this a trivial intersection. (t · c) buidhe 21:20, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
• Oh dear. I damn sure messed up when I inadvertently added added "Israeli legal scholars" as a subcat - instead of making it a See also link, as I intended - which is how I have >always< handled that sort of thing over the years. I was totally wiped out when I made those edits - I bungled it twice, actually, and I'm still shaking my head about it! In any event, I have rectified the mistake.

Back to the issue at hand: Why have you all completely ignored the argument I presented showing the very clear pertinence of Jewish legal scholarship? Not a single editor has responded in any way to the case I've made. Regards, Anomalous+0 (talk) 14:51, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi. The criterion in WP:EGRS is: "combination is itself recognized as a defining topic that has already been established (in reliable sources showing substantial existing research specific to the topic." The sources you cite above are about Jewish law, which is certainly a significant topic, but not legal scholars who happen to be American Jews. Btw, some of your sources could be used to create a section in the Jewish law article about its influence in Western law, if not an article itself. Kol tuv, ProfGray (talk) 15:22, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

P.S. For what it's worth, there are reliable sources that recognize "Jewish lawyers" (or legal scholars) as a defining topic. I don't know why there's no category, maybe it's been proposed and deleted in the past. Sources include:

• Hornblass, Jerome. "The Jewish Lawyer." Cardozo L. Rev. 14 (1992): 1639.
• Auerbach, Jerold S. "From Rags to Robes: The Legal Profession, Social Mobility and the American Jewish Experience." American Jewish Historical Quarterly 66, no. 2 (1976): 249-284.
• Rabbis and Lawyers: The Journey from Torah to Constitution [book], Jerold S. Auerbach
• Auerbach, Jerold S. "Prophets or Profits? Liberal Lawyers and Jewish Tradition." Judaism 36, no. 3 (1987): 360.
• Simone Ladwig-Winters, (2018) Lawyers Without Rights: The Fate of Jewish Lawyers in Berlin After 1933
• Fagen, Melvin M. "The Status of Jewish Lawyers in New York City: A Preliminary Report on a Study Made by the Conference on Jewish Relations." Jewish Social Studies (1939): 73-104.
• Wald, Eli. "Jewish Lawyers and the US Legal Profession: The End of the Affair?." Touro L. Rev. 36 (2020): 299.
• Greisman, Israel M. "The Jewish Criminal Lawyer's Dilemma." Fordham Urb. LJ 29 (2001): 2413.
• Asimow, Michael. "Jewish Lawyers in American Popular Culture." Va. Sports & Ent. LJ 21 (2022): 1.
• Sarna, Jonathan D. "Two Jewish Lawyers Named Louis." American Jewish History 94, no. 1 (2008): 1-19.
• Meniconi, Antonella. "The expulsion of Jewish lawyers from the legal profession." Razza e: 99.
• Jarausch, Konrad H. "Jewish Lawyers in Germany, 1848–1938: the Disintegration of a Profession." The Leo Baeck Institute Yearbook 36, no. 1 (1991): 171-190.
• De Benedetti, Paola. "Jewish lawyers at the Court of Turin." Razza e: 153.
• Shamir, Ronen. "Nation-building and colonialism: The case of Jewish lawyers in Palestine." International Journal of the Legal Profession 8, no. 2 (2001): 109-123.
• Kuhne, Gunther. "The Impact of German Jewish Jurists on German Law until 1933 and Their Immigration Thereafter to the US, Israel, and Other Countries." Tel Aviv U. Stud. L. 15 (2000): 67.

However, rather than create a category, why not create an article with this material? Expand from these few sentences: History of the American legal profession#Jewish lawyers. Thanks. ProfGray (talk) 15:38, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @ProfGray for breaking down the issue as well as wading through the wall of text! I think your suggestion to make a page is very constructive! @Anomalous+0 please keep your arguments more concise if you want editors to address them on the specifics. Mason (talk) 12:14, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi. @Mason, would it be reasonable to rename (Move) the Category:Jewish American legal scholars to a new Category:Jewish American lawyers, as a subset of Category:American lawyers by ethnicity? As shown with source above, this combination is a defining topic, though it only has an article section and not a full article yet. (I'm not sure if there's enough for Jewish lawyers in general, though examples of De Benedetti, Meniconi, Shamir, Kuhne above would be relevant.)

Btw, there's also List of Jewish American jurists. Does this article imply that there's a defining topic for a category by this name? Thanks, ProfGray (talk) 12:40, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Thoughts on ProfGray's rename suggestion?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 02:44, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Category:Things in the United States that were built by slaves

Convert Category:Things in the United States that were built by slaves to article Things in the United States that were built by slaves

Nominator's rationale: Unforuntely, I don't think that this is defining because these "things" aren't regularlly defined as built by slaves Mason (talk) 00:28, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

• Delete, possibly listify per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:49, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

  If converted to a list, article should be named Structures in the United States built by slaves. "Things" is so vague. Omnis Scientia (talk) 13:07, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Listify? If we are listifying, what should the list be called?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 02:35, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Category:American people who self-identify as being of Native American descent

• Propose deleting Category:American people who self-identify as being of Native American descent (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Failed verification and WP:NONDEF issues. I checked several articles at random and most do not support the source of the claim of Native American descent being "self-identification" or that the individuals have not "shared proof of this heritage" (proof is not mentioned). The insinuation here is that these people are not genuinely of Native American descent but sources don't support (or contradict) that. As for some self-sourced claims of descent being false, that is true for all other types of descent but we justifiably don't have Category:People who self-identify as being of Sephardic Jewish descent. Furthermore, people saying "I'm Native American" in an interview, if they lack a genuine connection to Native American culture, is never going to meet the standard for categorization in WP:NONDEF. (t · c) buidhe 21:19, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

@Buidhe, I agree that these should be deleted per nom but definitely nominate all the subcategories too. Per the below discussion, I'm changing my vote to neutral for now. Was not aware of a previous discussion on this. Omnis Scientia (talk) 21:59, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Procedural oppose. This was the subject of a very long CFD, the contributors of which should be pinged. Mason (talk) 22:49, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

I didn't realize that there had been a prior CfD but the result is hard to reconcile with the P&G. Seems like a better solution to the identified problem might to be enforcing existing wp:defining rules or even eliminating Native American categories by descent that aren't for registered tribal members. The situation as it is now feels like Wikipedia trying to decide who is proven to be a real Native American or not—which the sources, in the vast majority of cases, don't allow us to do. (t · c) buidhe 02:54, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Furthermore, it's unclear to me what differentiates this category tree from the People of Native American descent tree. Articles like Tiffany Darwish seem like they could be placed into either. What type of source is required to declare Native American identity "proven" rather than a mater of "self-identification"? (t · c) buidhe 02:59, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

I agree that almost all articles in the category fail verification as it is currently drafted. This is a problematic category, especially for BLPs. It is a subcat of Category:American people who self-identify as being of Indigenous descent, which makes the stronger claim that the indivudals have no proof of the heritage. (Previous parent categories put everyone in this category under Category:Native American cultural appropriation and Category:Transracial (identity), but those at least have been removed.) It is of limited use to have a category that groups together known frauds, people who have a genuine but incorrect belief that they have Indigenous ancestry, and people who do have Indigenous ancestry but a particular standard of proof hasn't been found in reliable sources.--Trystan (talk) 04:32, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

• Procedural oppose per Mason. There was very fierce opposition at the time. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:53, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I will ping all participants at the previous CFD. I will also note (without comment) that since the previous discussion, ArbCom has passed a motion stating that Mark Ironie and CorbieVreccan (who both participated in the prior CFD) are to be considered a single user.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 02:28, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

• @Brandmeister, CorbieVreccan, Dimadick, Indigenous girl, Jjj1238, Koavf, Marcocapelle, Mark Ironie, Moxy, Namiba, Place Clichy, Qwerfjkl, RevelationDirect, TheMainLogan, ValarianB, and Yuchitown: Pinging previous participants, regardless of participation in the above discussion. I have no opinion on the merits of the proposal. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 02:32, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

  Oppose deletion the category was created because of the very specific and nuanced differences between claiming Native American heritage and claiming any other kind of heritage. There are numerous cases (as the amount of articles in the category suggests) where an individual's claim to Native American ancestry is relevant enough for inclusion, but they are not considered to be Native American by the Native American community because of the aforementioned nuances that exist here. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 02:39, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

  This comment does not engage with the deletion argument at all and should be disregarded by the closer. Unless there is more clarity about how the two sets of categories are distinguished in reliable sources and how we can verifiably distinguish them, there is no basis for categorization. You also haven't explained how people in this category meets the defining criteria. I wonder if there is even any evidence in reliable sources that native American heritage (as opposed to being an actual tribal member) is somehow distinct from all other ethnicities that it requires a different categorization scheme (t · c) buidhe 03:40, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. Yes, this is often defining and also Native American is a unique political classification in the United States, not an ethnicity. Yuchitown (talk) 04:34, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Category:Lighthouse of Alexandria

• Propose deleting Category:Lighthouse of Alexandria (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: delete, not a defining characteristic of the articles in this category. It rather is a "what links here" collection. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:07, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Omnis Scientia (talk) 08:51, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose It covers the lighthouse's architect Sostratus of Cnidus, its destruction in the 1303 Crete earthquake, several attempts at duplication, and depictions in fiction. Dimadick (talk) 05:10, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

• 1303 Crete earthquake is a good example, its epicenter wasn't in Egypt, it caused damage all over Crete and Egypt. Lighthouse of Alexandria really isn't a defining characteristic of this earthquake. This applies similarly to the other articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:54, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

• Comment A majority of the (now-13) articles should be removed, or moved to a new Cultural depictions of the Lighthouse of Alexandria if consensus for such a category exists. I'm not sure there will be more than 3 articles left when that is done. Walsh90210 (talk) 19:59, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Thoughts on the suggestion for a Category:Cultural depictions of the Lighthouse of Alexandria? If that happens, should we also delete this category?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 23:56, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: See above relisting comment.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 02:19, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Category:Church of Sweden clergymen in Colonial North America

• Propose merging Category:Church of Sweden clergymen in Colonial North America to Category:American Lutheran clergy

Nominator's rationale: This category is extremely narrow. I think it should either be merged to 17th/18th century American Lutheran clergy or renamed to Church of Sweden clergy from the Thirteen Colonies Mason (talk) 03:28, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

• If not kept then delete, because all articles are already in Category:17th-century American Lutheran clergy or Category:18th-century American Lutheran clergy. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:15, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
• Keep as Church of Sweden clergy from the Thirteen Colonies; much better than my original. Creuzbourg (talk) 13:33, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 02:13, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Category:Timex Datalink

• Propose deleting Category:Timex Datalink (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: There's only one page in here along with 8 images that are hosted on Wikimedia commons. Mason (talk) 02:06, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Category:People of Mexican side in the Texas Revolution

• Propose renaming Category:People of Mexican side in the Texas Revolution to Category:Mexican people of the Texas Revolution

Nominator's rationale: The current name sounds awkward and is confusing/inconsistent Mason (talk) 01:53, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

• Technically both sides were Mexican people when the revolution started. Perhaps Category:Pro-Mexico people of the Texas Revolution? Marcocapelle (talk) 06:47, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Thoughts on Marcocapelle's suggestion?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 01:36, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Category:Cercle Brugge templates

• Propose renaming Category:Cercle Brugge templates to Category:Cercle Brugge K.S.V. templates

Nominator's rationale: match naming of parent category Microwave Anarchist (talk) 00:40, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Redirects

Talk:Ghettosburg Address

• Talk:Ghettosburg Address → Talk:Pound Cake speech  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

I don't see any reference for this term being applied to Cosby's speech in the article. Further, an old commenter didn't find any reference in his research. Veggies (talk) 04:35, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Ó. А. Лады́женская

• Ó. А. Лады́женская → Olga Ladyzhenskaya  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

WP:UNNATURAL mistake with the "О́" being a Latin-script letter (apart from the fact that it's pretty much impossible that this is entered with the stress marks, which are only used in Russian in the headings of dictionary/encyclopaedia entries or in linguistics). 1234qwer1234qwer4 01:50, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Templates and Modules

Template:Diplomatic missions of Uganda

• Template:Diplomatic missions of Uganda (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Only has 2 English links. Pointless for a nav box to have 2 entries. LibStar (talk) 05:05, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Template:Kartvelian languages

• Template:Kartvelian languages (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
• Template:Georgian language (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Propose merging Template:Kartvelian languages with Template:Georgian language.
I think Template:Kartvelian languages should be merged with Template:Georgian language and then the latter template moved to 'Template:Kartvelian languages', because I think the former template's too small to be separate, with only 10 strictly language-related links, including the link to the main article, two links to proto-languages, two links to language sub-families, four links to modern languages, and one link to a historical language, because there's a bit of overlap with the latter template, and because Georgian's the most widely known and spoken language of this family. PK2 (talk; contributions) 04:53, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Template:Diplomatic missions of Guinea

• Template:Diplomatic missions of Guinea (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Only has 2 English entries, 1 of which (India) is a redirect. No point having a nav box for 1 entry. LibStar (talk) 00:06, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Template:Diplomatic missions of Kenya

• Template:Diplomatic missions of Kenya (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Pointless having a nav box with just 2 English entries. One of which is up for deletion. LibStar (talk) 00:01, 30 September 2024 (UTC)