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Talk:Veternica (cave)

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Can't quite tell why this wouldn't be possible to implement as part of a Bibliography section at the topic article itself...? Joy (talk) 08:39, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for asking. In my opinion it would be fine in the Further reading section as the policies allow it, but unfortunately the majority opinion would be that it is too long as the guidelines don't. "Bibliography" is synonymous with Further reading unless the citation style is that used as substitute for inline citations, but to avoid any ambiguity I will use "Further reading" instead. Here is my reasoning:
Further reading problems. Although MOS:FURTHER says nothing about length, "long" Further reading sections are routinely tagged with {{Bookfarm}}, whose guidelines state "Most editors object to more than about half a dozen publications, but the best number for a given article depends on the specific circumstances, and may range from zero to more than a dozen." I have broken this guideline multiple times (most recently with Grmoščica which I will probably need to split off), but since in this case I am moving to mainspace an article draftified by a novice reviewer for notability while I was unavailable, I have chosen to adhere more strictly to guidelines.
Selected works problems. The Veternica (cave) article has a Selected works section, which can exist parallel to a Further reading section. Per WP:MOS-BIBLIO, "Complete lists of works, appropriately sourced to reliable scholarship (WP:V), are encouraged, particularly when such lists are not already freely available on the internet. If the list has a separate article, a simplified version should also be provided in the main article." One would think this would allow for a more comprehensive bibliographies in the main article. In practice this is sadly not the case. If no "selection" was involved, a comprehensive bibliography (such as this one) is unlikely to be left alone without lossy "pruning".
The solution is therefore a standalone bibliography in the style recommended by WikiProject Bibliographies, leaving the most comprehensive literary treatments of the cave in the "Selected works" section. The Single article bibliographies guideline there states, "If there are fewer than 10 possible entries in the bibliography, then those entries should be included in a Further reading section in the topic article." That has been followed in Veternica (cave), but since there are many more works on the of the cave, mostly devoted to a particular aspect, an additional standalone bibliography is merited. It has been organised topically, with the result that some of its 62 entries appear more than once. Since the "lead of a topical bibliography should establish the notability of the bibliography by citing at least two sources that demonstrate that relevant books, journals and other references on a specific topic have been discussed as a group," the lead of Veternica bibliography begins accordingly.
The frequency of bibliography articles on Wikipedia is very low, so your confusion is quite understandable. Ivan (talk) 15:43, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]