Talk:Sam Bankman-Fried

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Sam Bankman-Fried article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2: 90 days

A news item involving Sam Bankman-Fried was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 3 November 2023.

Wikipedia

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Cryptocurrency High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cryptocurrency, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of cryptocurrency on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CryptocurrencyWikipedia:WikiProject CryptocurrencyTemplate:WikiProject CryptocurrencyWikiProject Cryptocurrency articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.

Technology

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Technology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of technology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TechnologyWikipedia:WikiProject TechnologyTemplate:WikiProject TechnologyTechnology articles

Computing Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Computing, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of computers, computing, and information technology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ComputingWikipedia:WikiProject ComputingTemplate:WikiProject ComputingComputing articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Internet Low‑importance

	Internet portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Internet, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Internet on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.InternetWikipedia:WikiProject InternetTemplate:WikiProject InternetInternet articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Finance & Investment Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Finance & Investment, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Finance and Investment on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Finance & InvestmentWikipedia:WikiProject Finance & InvestmentTemplate:WikiProject Finance & InvestmentFinance & Investment articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Effective Altruism Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Effective Altruism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relevant to effective altruism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Effective AltruismWikipedia:WikiProject Effective AltruismTemplate:WikiProject Effective AltruismEffective Altruism articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

Veganism and Vegetarianism Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Veganism and Vegetarianism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of veganism and vegetarianism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Veganism and VegetarianismWikipedia:WikiProject Veganism and VegetarianismTemplate:WikiProject Veganism and VegetarianismVeganism and Vegetarianism articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

California: San Francisco Bay Area Low‑importance

	California portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject California, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of California on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CaliforniaWikipedia:WikiProject CaliforniaTemplate:WikiProject CaliforniaCalifornia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	San Francisco Bay Area portal This article is supported by San Francisco Bay Area task force.

Crime and Criminal Biography Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Very recent change to opening paragraph -- questionable?

Should "Jewish American" be included in the first sentence? I saw that someone made this change very recently and thought it might deserve discussion first. Thanks! 205.178.63.9 (talk) 19:11, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That edit has been removed a few times. MOS:ETHNICITY suggests that it's not appropriate here: Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability. Joyous! Noise! 19:56, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there! I made this edit -- As mentioned before, it goes against the guidelines, but additionally Sam has mentioned that he is a non-practicing Jew. Adding that is in bad taste, and not remotely relevant to what made him notable. External-cover (talk) 20:03, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It should be noted that @TarkusAB was the editor associated with this change, adding it back after several edits to remove it. External-cover (talk) 20:09, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's not true. All I did was remove an in-line external link. "Jewish" was added in by an IP. TarkusAB^talk/contrib 20:20, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies!! Correct, and once again -- apologies. External-cover (talk) 00:04, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Problem continues. Requested page protection. -- GreenC 00:43, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"At the peak of his success"???

What success? Scamming people? This reads like it was written by Bankman-Fried himself. He is a fraudster, he was never a success. Please remove this from the summary. I had done this already and replaced it with the neutral, objective - "At one point, ..." Do not attempt to glamourize this individual with misinformation. He made big bucks through fraud and fraud alone. 2604:3D09:4184:5100:6D85:C839:DA7A:7E2E (talk) 18:17, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, have removed this wording that is actually PR + POV, it's offensive to people who lost money because of him. --Devoke water 21:19, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! 2604:3D09:4184:5100:28C2:E9F:77AE:1D7F (talk) 20:28, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:OM: Wikipedia's encyclopedic mission encompasses the inclusion of material that may offend. And Wikipedia is not censored. Note that if enough sources qualify B-F as, for example, "one of the most successful fraudsters ever," or some such, then there could not be a strong objection to include the use of that word, "success" or its derivatives, in the article. No "promotion" or "editors' opinions" there. But, either way, please check out my suggestion below, no matter what the language in sources is. -The Gnome (talk)

The lead section is a chronological narrative of his life story, which for SBF is one of rise and fall. The way we do things [ideally] is telling life stories chronologically as they occurred. You have to read the entire thing, not cherry pick words and sentences and ignore everything else. He was not always considered a bad guy. If his former public image of being successful is now offensive to his victims, that's understandable, but his former public image of being successful is a major part of his notability, and part of why his downfall is such a big deal - we all got fooled. But, if people want to suppress how publicly successful he was considered before it was known he was a scammer, the impact of his downfall will be harder to understand, particularly for future generations who didn't live through it, or are not familiar with who SBF is. The phrase "At one time" is vague and misses the point. If the word "success" is a problem we can try something else, since the sentence concerns his net worth, more precise would be "net worth". -- GreenC 23:22, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To denote the zenith of B-F's criminal enterprise, we could use the expression "at the peak of Bankman'Fried's fraudulent schemes", etc. -The Gnome (talk) 14:08, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's overkill and out of chronological order. If the lead section is unable to convey how widely respected, admired, etc.. he was, then it is not accurately portraying the history of what occurred. He betrayed many people, who trusted him, and didn't know it was a fraudulent scheme. This needs to be conveyed, and it's easily done if you just give a little space to demonstrating it. It's very simple, tell the story in chronological order giving the basic facts as we knew them as they were revealed over time (except the first sentence which is special). -- GreenC 15:57, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Appeals process

Special:Diff/1222816958/1222993873 - "cleanup nonsense. you never have to convince two courts, find a better source if you want to include all this. it is contrary to even a basic understanding of US law"

"The appeal would need to convince the District Court, and possibly the Supreme Court" ie. the appeal begins at the District Court, and if SBF looses that, he can appeal to a higher court, which is the SCOTUS, at which point SCOTUS either rules on it, or sends it back to the lower court decision (or directs the lower court to refactor based on some issue with the law). There is no misunderstanding of the law, it is SBF's appeal roadmap: he will need to convince the District Court, and if that doesn't work and he chooses, SCOTUS. This is basic, commonsense, law 101. Nor is it "crystal" (a woefully overused rule on Wikipedia) to note what is the absolutely predetermined legal path open for SBF's appeals process. -- GreenC 15:14, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

In the incarceration history section, please add that he is currently incarcerated at Federal Correctional Institution, Lewisburg https://www.bop.gov/mobile/find_inmate/byname.jsp#inmate_results 2600:100C:A211:7F18:358E:7CD8:2C0A:B889 (talk) 02:02, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done Charliehdb (talk) 09:51, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reverted and removed all this stuff from the article Special:Diff/1226545638/1226604366. Verify at https://www.bop.gov/inmateloc/ choose the "Find by Number" and enter the BOp Registration Number "37244-510" -- he is still in Brooklyn. Everything else doesn't belong in the article, unless there is a reliable secondary source the says he moved. -- GreenC 18:23, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SBF always calling the shots?

In this diff it said:

But they also emphasized that ultimately at both businesses, Bankman-Fried called the shots

Now changed to:

But they also emphasized that ultimately at both businesses, Bankman-Fried was the only individual in charge.

This gives the impression SBF was the only one in charge. The source says, "the defense poked a hole in the idea that Bankman-Fried was always calling the shots at Alameda".

It seems what we are saying is directly contradicted by the source. -- GreenC 16:51, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]