Jump to content

Talk:Elliot Rodger

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Infobox

[edit]

@Adult Virgin, I've removed your re-insertion of material to the infobox that Rodger was a) "author of the modern incel ideology" and b) that they were part of a movement "Incels". Both do not belong in the infobox as they are original research. Per WP:BLPUNDEL and WP:ONUS you are required to obtain consensus prior to restoring the material or similar. Please discuss the material here. TarnishedPathtalk 01:25, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

it isn't original research
it was the original description of what he was known for, that someone correctly placed there months ago
then someone changed it, and then someone else removed it altogether
he is definitely not JUST known for being the Perpetrator of the 2014 Isla Vista Killings
I was just putting it back to its original state Adult Virgin (talk) 01:32, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If it's not original research where are your reliable sources which label them as the "author of the modern incel ideology". Where are the reliable sources which say that they were part of a movement called "incels"? TarnishedPathtalk 03:16, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
TarnishedPath - While I don't agree with using the labels founding father' or author, there is a general consensus amongst scholarly literature that Rodger is associated with the incel movement/ideology, and is frequently referred to as the first.
On May 23, 2014, Elliot Rodger, 22, became the world’s most notorious incel violence perpetrator.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9] Isaidnoway (talk) 16:41, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Entirely agree. My objection has to do with giving him titles, such as "author of the modern incel ideology". Or attributing him to a movement called "Incels", when it only got that label of being a movement after his heinous violence. I don't think such things have a place in the infobox. TarnishedPathtalk 00:02, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Referring to Elliot Rodger as the "Founding Father of the incel ideology" in the infobox

[edit]

Should Elliot Rodger be referred to as the "Founding Father of the incel ideology" or similar in the infobox? TarnishedPathtalk 07:12, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Polling

[edit]
  • He's not a monolith. Whatever happened to going Sodini? 2D Is Better Than 3D (talk) 09:11, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • No to founding father, but I would support something along the lines of first known or first recognized as more neutral and clinical. Rodger has become a celebrated figure and martyr among the incel community for committing the first known incel-based attack.[10] The manifesto published by the first recognised incel attacker, Elliot Rodger in 2014.[11] The Isla Vista attack is recognized as the pivotal moment where misogynist incels coalesced as a movement.[12] Incel ideology has been linked to dozens of murders and assaults over the past decade, the most prominent one involving Elliot Rodger.[13] Isaidnoway (talk) 09:28, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • No: While there are reliable sources which refer to Rodger as the "founding father", they are small in number and appear to be mostly quoting others. It would therefore be WP:UNDUE to call Rodger the "founding father of incel ideology" in Wikivoice in the infobox. TarnishedPathtalk 09:54, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, or something similar
    he's definitely definitely not JUST known for being the Perpetrator of the Isla Vista Killings, that's downright stupid
    he was referred to as the author of the incel ideology in the infobox for months before someone tampered with it
    I can provide several reliable sources that refer to him in a similar way if I must
    lets leave it how it was Adult Virgin (talk) 11:46, 24 July 2024 (UTC) sock strike[reply]
  • No, it's simply not true.--Ortizesp (talk) 16:35, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

[edit]
Sources

  1. ^ Vink, Dominique; Abbas, Tahir; Veilleux-Lepage, Yannick; McNeil-Willson, Richard (29 March 2023). ""Because They Are Women in a Man's World": A Critical Discourse Analysis of Incel Violent Extremists and the Stories They Tell". Terrorism and Political Violence: 1–17. doi:10.1080/09546553.2023.2189970.
  2. ^ Moskalenko, Sophia; Kates, Naama; Fernández-Garayzábal González, Juncal; Bloom, Mia (31 August 2022). "Predictors of Radical Intentions among Incels: A Survey of 54 Self-identified Incels". Journal of Online Trust and Safety. 1 (3). doi:10.54501/jots.v1i3.57. Kelly, DiBranco, and DeCook (2021) argue that while not all attacks committed by Incels are terrorism, some, like Rodger's and Minassian's, may qualify for the designation because they are perpetrated with ideological motivations
  3. ^ Hoffman, Bruce; Ware, Jacob; Shapiro, Ezra (2 July 2020). "Assessing the Threat of Incel Violence". Studies in Conflict & Terrorism. 43 (7): 565–587. doi:10.1080/1057610X.2020.1751459. Elliot Rodger, who perpetrated the first attack claimed in the name of incels.
  4. ^ Sparks, Brandon; Zidenberg, Alexandra M.; Olver, Mark E. (2 February 2023). "One is the loneliest number: Involuntary celibacy (incel), mental health, and loneliness". Current Psychology. 43: 392–406. doi:10.1007/s12144-023-04275-z. PMC 9892684. PMID 36747916. On the one hand, Rodger has been heralded as a martyr and the "supreme gentleman" of the incel community for the attack
  5. ^ Costello, William; Rolon, Vania; Thomas, Andrew G.; Schmitt, David (12 September 2022). "Levels of Well-Being Among Men Who Are Incel (Involuntarily Celibate)". Evolutionary Psychological Science. 8 (4): 375–390. doi:10.1007/s40806-022-00336-x. Incels, or involuntary celibates ... most notable is the notorious case of Elliot Rodger, who in 2014 killed six people
  6. ^ Pelzer, Björn; Kaati, Lisa; Cohen, Katie; Fernquist, Johan (August 2021). "Toxic language in online incel communities". SN Social Sciences. 1 (8). doi:10.1007/s43545-021-00220-8. One of the most well-known is offender is Elliot Rodger
  7. ^ DeCook, Julia R. (June 2021). "Castration, the archive, and the incel wiki". Psychoanalysis, Culture & Society. 26 (2): 234–243. doi:10.1057/s41282-021-00212-w. Incels are a misogynistic online subculture that often celebrates and calls for violence against women, entered the public discourse when Elliot Rodger committed a mass murder in Isla Vista, California, in 2014
  8. ^ Moldrup, Benjamin H. B.; Jensen, Asger (March 2024). "Hidden Tragedies of the Self: the Stalemate of Involuntary Celibacy". Human Arenas. 7 (1): 156–165. doi:10.1007/s42087-021-00263-6. Consider for a moment, first, the actions of terrorist Elliot Rodger ... the Isla Vista killings altered the public, academic, and social representation of inceldom.
  9. ^ Heritage, Frazer (2023). "Positioning incels". Incels and Ideologies. Palgrave Studies in Language, Gender and Sexuality. Palgrave Macmillan. pp. 41–92. doi:10.1007/978-3-031-40184-8_2.
  10. ^ Sparks, Brandon; Zidenberg, Alexandra M.; Olver, Mark E. (December 2022). "Involuntary Celibacy: A Review of Incel Ideology and Experiences with Dating, Rejection, and Associated Mental Health and Emotional Sequelae". Current Psychiatry Reports. 24 (12): 731–740. doi:10.1007/s11920-022-01382-9. PMC 9780135. PMID 36394688.
  11. ^ Lewis, Jon; Ware, Jacob (August 28, 2020). "Spring Provides Timely Reminder of Incel Violence—And Clarifies How to Respond". International Centre for Counter-Terrorism.
  12. ^ Fugardi, Rachael (May 23, 2023). "Nine years after deadly 'incel' attack, threat of male supremacism is growing". Southern Poverty Law Center.
  13. ^ Lorenz, Taylor (September 26, 2022). "The online incel movement is getting more violent and extreme, report says". The Washington Post.

Edit request

[edit]

"Sophy prescribed the antipsychotic drug Risperidone ..." Please change "Risperidone" to "risperidone". It's a generic name that should not be capitalized. 203.211.104.189 (talk) 17:04, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also: "Rodger used his car block the driver's exit" should be "Rodger used his car to block the driver's exit". 2401:7000:CA09:4700:2488:6F5B:A83B:264D (talk) 17:47, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
One last request: "Rodger took Xanax and Benzodiazepine". "Benzodiazepine" should be "a benzodiazepine" because (1) "benzodiazepine" is a generic term and (2) benzodiazepines are a class of drugs rather than a single drug. 2401:7000:CA09:4700:2488:6F5B:A83B:264D (talk) 17:55, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]