Talk:2024–25 UEFA Champions League

Contradiction

This phrase is nonsensical and contradictory with itself. I checked the reference and could not clarify what "country protected" means. Editing is necessary to clarify.

"Teams could not face opponents from their own association, and could only be drawn against a maximum of two sides from the same association" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.254.157.206 (talk) 11:42, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Untitled

Liverpool need adding to the group stage as pot to be determined as they are now guaranteed qualification. I’ve made this change twice now and it’s been reverted twice. Do the maths. They have qualified. The fact we won the League Cup is irrelevant we don’t go into the conference league as league position takes precedent — Preceding unsigned comment added by Helpful24 (talk • contribs) 06:09, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Liverpool have not qualified as both Aston Villa and Tottenham can still finish above them. It make take an unlikely combination of results including a big swing in goal difference in Tottenham's favour but it is still possible for Liverpool to finish fifth. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 09:57, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Dortmund is in Pot 1

Borussia Dortmund is 10th on the UEFA coefficient, and Chelsea is 9th and they are unable to qualify, also the title holders (RMA, BAY, PSG or BVB) already are qualified and they are already in pot 1 2803:C600:711D:8509:E5C5:370E:4FC2:CD31 (talk) 02:42, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Leverkusen could still equal Dortmund's coefficient by winning the Europa League. In that case, Leverkusen would be pot 1 as they had gained more points this season. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 06:18, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Dortmund has 94 Points, while Leverkusen has 86. If I am not mistaken Leverkusen can gain up to 7 points (3 wins (6 pts, plus 1 pts for reaching the final, so Leverkusen cannot match Dortmund.

There is another mistake however, it is not yet clear, weather the spot reserved for the champions league champions is handed to the next champion not directly qualified (should be serbia), but may be awarded to the 6th placed team in germany, if Dortmund ends up winning the CH-L but will only be fifth in league. The yearly spot to germany will be awarded AFTER Dortmund takes the spot for CH-L title. 213.168.201.64 (talk) 10:04, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Title holders berth

@Tedeff and HarveyMilestone: Could we not let this descend into an edit war and discuss here please? From reading this article, I believe the title holder berth is still open for Dortmund to take should they finish fifth in the Bundesliga. That article does not definitively outline what would happen in the scenario that the title holders finish in a league position which would otherwise have qualified via the European Performance Slots though. Does anyone know of a source with a definitive answer? Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 10:59, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

I’m basing my understanding on the notes regarding this scenario attached to the champions league spots on both 2023–24 Bundesliga#League table and 2023–24 Serie A#League table. (Admittedly those are unsourced and I don’t know who added that info) Tedeff (talk) 11:07, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

It may be worth asking @S.A. Julio who reverted your original revision about this, @Stevie fae Scotland Tedeff (talk) 11:10, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, you're right. I was about to stop the 'war' until we knew more.. HarveyMilestone (talk) 11:34, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

This is from an ESPN article: If Dortmund win the Champions League and finish fifth, then the Bundesliga will have six teams in the Champions League -- the top four, Dortmund as Champions League titleholders, plus the European Performance Spot. The Bundesliga would forfeit one of its place in the Europa League, which would have been taken up by Dortmund. HarveyMilestone (talk) 11:38, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

UEFA-Link: https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/0268-12157d69ce2d-9f011c70f6fa-1000--new-format-for-champions-league-post-2024-everything-you-ne/

"These places will go to the associations with the best collective performance by their clubs in the previous season (i.e. the association club coefficient of the previous season, which is based on the total number of club coefficient points obtained by each club from an association divided by the number of participating clubs from that association). Those two associations will each earn one automatic place in the league phase ('European Performance Spot') for the club ranked next-best in their domestic league behind those clubs that have already qualified directly for the league phase."

for me at least "already qualified directly for the league phase." means, that these 2 places are given after all other places. in this scenario Bundesliga 1-4 (directly) + Dortmund as title holder. Next one gets the european performance spot 213.168.201.64 (talk) 13:20, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes these last two comments match my understanding too. Sounds like we agree then?

(I.e. The title holders berth is still reserved for the title holder, and cannot (yet) be passed down to another team without direct access to the league stage)

If Dortmund ends up in at least 4th place in the league, OR is knocked out of the CL, that’s when the title holder spot is passed down Tedeff (talk) 16:37, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

This is confirmed by sources such as ESPN and kicker. S.A. Julio (talk) 20:27, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Let's not forget, if Atalanta wins the Europa League title and finishes as low as 9th in Serie A (currently 6th with 2 fewer games than the other teams) , it could result in Serie A being represented by 6 teams in the next UEFA Champions League season too. Nericraz (talk) 21:02, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

that's cool, but atalanta are NOT going to beat neverlusen, unless a miracle happens. still a pretty good hypothetical scenario 2406:3003:2002:2D79:646A:16D2:A669:65EE (talk) 18:25, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

@Tomrtn: More so because the discussion is here rather than the Europa League page, but there is still a scenario that both Frankfurt and Roma could qualify for the Champions League. As discussed above, the European performance spots could be passed onto the sixth-placed teams in Germany and Italy if Dortmund win the Champions League and Atalanta win the Europa League. The title holder berth is only vacated if they finish in the top four (which Atalanta could still do). Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 15:27, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Girona and Man City

Can they play in the champions league for the 2024/25 season since they are both owned by the same group (city football group)? 2406:3003:2002:2D79:646A:16D2:A669:65EE (talk) 18:23, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Slavia Prague

The IP raises an interesting point. Are we sure Slavia Prague and not Partizan will be elevated from QR2 to QR3? Kassies is of the opinion that they will. I had a quick look but couldn't see a UEFA rebalancing link that explains it. If Slavia do get elevated to QR3, they would be guaranteed a Europa League league phase spot while league winners Sparta wouldn't even be guaranteed a Conference League league phase spot and I really don't think UEFA would do that. Does anyone have a definitive answer? Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 20:01, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

If someone could answer this question, that would be great. I see it is still getting changed back and forth. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 09:47, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

I highly rate Bert Kassies and I think that he is right. Why:

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/028a-1a4c5be8e18a-29cbe32d5cf6-1000--shakhtar-earn-automatic-place-in-2024-25-league-phase-tha/ this UEFA source says: Likewise, the two teams with the highest coefficient among the sides in the first qualifying round, Ferencváros and Qarabağ, have been promoted to the second qualifying round. Wich is also based on CC, otherwise Ferencváros and FCSB would've been promoted.. HarveyMilestone (talk) 17:09, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Map

With an extra four teams, wich includes two extra EPS and the Netherlands having a second direct spot, it will be fuller and fuller on the map. Is it an idea / possibility that the Benelux map will be a little bit extended? By a small extansion, maybe PSG, Stuttgart or even Arsenal can be added on the small map. I do think that the current map is way to unclear.. But that may be my problem ;)

Or, an complete different idea: keep the current map and just show the dots. Then enter two new maps for East/West Europe and Norht/South Europe? Or just an extra map with just Italy, Austria, Germany, Belgium, France and the Netherlands..

Would love to hear if that's an idea.. HarveyMilestone (talk) 13:45, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

League phase layout

Requesting input from Stevie fae Scotland, Island92, and any other users: As the draw for the league phase approaches, I wanted to clarify how the match result summaries will be displayed for readers on the main competition article, as well as the league phase article. Obviously we cannot simply use Module:Sports results to create a matrix table, as a 36×36 grid would be far too unwieldy.

There is similar precedent for a Swiss-system tournament format being used in football, namely 2019–20 CONCACAF Nations League qualifying, which might be a helpful basis.

I drew up a few different example approaches for a layout in my userspace, and was wondering which options you think would work best?

• Main UCL article options
• League phase article options

My preference would be options 2 & B. I'm not sure of your screen size, but for my wider desktop monitor, the results tables display in two neat columns. However, it will conveniently switch into a single column for smaller screen sizes and mobile devices.

Alternatively, we could choose to not have any match summary tables on either article, and opt to just show the league phase standings. However, this would be unorthodox, given we have displayed wikilinked match scores on all UCL articles since 1991/92.

Would appreciate any feedback/comments/alternative ideas. Thanks, S.A. Julio (talk) 04:59, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks S.A. Julio for putting this together. I think someone will add a results summary if we tried not to include it or remove it plus I think its useful for readers if they want an overview of the results. Had a look both on mobile and desktop and I agree the one and two column layout respectively works better. I'd agree with 2 and B, they are most compatible with each other and achieve a better layout for users on different devices. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 08:35, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Go for 2 & B. Island92 (talk) 10:01, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Yup, agree with above. Kante4 (talk) 20:27, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Agree with 2B Leprazoori (talk) 17:31, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

@Stevie fae Scotland, Island92, Kante4, and Leprazoori: Thanks for the input. One other question, which is a minor issue but thought I'd check. When displaying results for one or two-legged ties, the winning teams are always bolded in our summary tables. However, in this case matches may also be drawn, which results in neither team being bolded and is somewhat visually unappealing. It's not as easy to see the outcome at a glance, and looks the same as a match that is yet to be played. Alternatively we could supplement the results with a background colour, with yellow shown for a draw (see the example below). Visually I think the colouring makes the results clearer, though I understand it strays somewhat from our usual formatting on these articles. Thoughts? S.A. Julio (talk) 07:31, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Standard formatting. Island92 (talk) 07:57, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Personally, I wouldn't bold or colour any of them because it's a league/group match. It's not like winning a cup/European tie where the bolding can be used to indicate progression. Here, it will be decided by the league table instead. If bolding is preferred though, I'd go without colouring. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 08:16, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Agree with Standard. Kante4 (talk) 11:03, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Example match summaries

Standard formatting

Team 1	Score	Team 2
Manchester City	2–1	Brest
RB Leipzig	1–2	Feyenoord
Real Madrid	2–2	Bologna
Milan	2–3	Lille
Atlético Madrid	17 Sep	Monaco

With colouring

Team 1	Score	Team 2
Manchester City	2–1	Brest
RB Leipzig	1–2	Feyenoord
Real Madrid	2–2	Bologna
Milan	2–3	Lille
Atlético Madrid	17 Sep	Monaco

@Stevie fae Scotland, Island92, Kante4, and Leprazoori: Alright, thanks for comments. Sorry to continue with the questions, but after a bit of further contemplation, looking at other wikis (for example dewiki) and doing some tests in my sandbox, I thought I'd check regarding one final alternative option for us to use as a match summary.

Instead of listing out all fixtures by matchday, we could instead display them for each club chronologically (option A) or by pot (option B), similar to the draw result. I have provided two examples in my sandbox, along with the option originally agreed upon above (ignore fixtures/dates, it's just illustrative). This format more closely resembles Module:Sports results (which is what facilitated the result summaries as part of the group tables in previous seasons), is more compact, allows you to easily follow the results of each club (which group tables allowed for in the past, but isn't possible with the format we agreed upon above), and follows the same formatting as some leagues which do not use a round-robin (for example here). The only downsides are that all match results will be listed twice, and team abbreviations have to be used (though that's the same as in the past, for example 2023–24 UEFA Champions League#Group B).

I'm somewhat split on this, but given this format will be used for many seasons to come, I thought there should be a consensus on how to display these results in a clear manner for our readers. Thanks, S.A. Julio (talk) 02:32, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm in favour of the current play at the bottom. It's "clumsy", very big and could be confusing for some readers using a method from above. Kante4 (talk) 08:03, 31 August 2024 (UTC)