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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article still meets A-Class criteria - TomStar81 (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 09:06, 20 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Nominator(s): AustralianRupert (talk)

2nd Canadian Division during World War II (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

I am nominating this article for an A-class reappraisal as unfortunately I don't believe it meets the criteria anymore (specifically based on its referencing). Ultimately, I would like to try to bring the article back up to A-class status, but if that is not possible, I believe it should be demoted. It was nominated for FAR in early 2015, and although I attempted to help deal with the issues raised in that review, I did not have access to the sources that its original author (now inactive) had. As such, it was ultimately demoted from FA and I believe that unless someone can deal with these issues it will need to be demoted from A-class also.

I am also concerned about the article's scope, as it appears to largely duplicate 2nd Canadian Division. The original editor, I believe, felt that the two formations were distinctly separate; however, the way that the 2nd Canadian Division article is written now indicates differently, so I think we also need to consider how this article is meant to nest with the other one. I guess there are a couple of options here. Potentially this one could be re-titled "2nd Canadian Infantry Division during World War II" to make it clear that the article is limited in its scope, but there are also other options that could potentially be considered while we are here. I invite any interested parties to comment on the article's compliance with the A-class criteria, and to list anything that they believe should be fixed. If I have the ability to rectify these issues, I will, but ultimately unless someone can assist with referencing, I won't be able to fix issues in that area. Thank you to all who stop by. AustralianRupert (talk) 06:29, 6 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I have resolved some of the issues above now: AustralianRupert (talk) 15:07, 10 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • I have managed to resolve a few more of the missing citations, and have also added mentions of the commanders into the narrative as they were missing before. There are still a couple of citations required though. These are my recent edits: [16].
  • I still wonder if this article should be re-titled to "2nd Canadian Infantry Division during World War II". If so, I think some mention of the units lineage to the First World War should potentially be added to the Formation section, and then potentially its later incarnations to the final section. Thoughts?
  • Firstly as a Canadian (want to establish my inherent bias outright) I want to thank you for working on this article. I have no expertise in the area of ground units, but after looking at the articles mentioned, I would agree that the title should be changed. The basic units are essentially the same just one is an overview while the other deals with a distinct period in the unit's history. Llammakey (talk) 18:05, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for stopping by, Llammakey, I've managed to find the remaining citations now. These are this morning's edits: [17] @Ian Rose: G'day, Ian, as you took part in the FAR, would you be able to take a look at the recent changes and provide an opinion if it is still up to A-class standard. I think I've resolved most of the major issues. Equally, would you mind offering an opinion about whether this article should be moved to "2nd Canadian Infantry Division during World War II"? Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 21:36, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment First sentence "North of Rhine" section, "rested from" ambiguous  Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 13:54, 7 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: @Nikkimaria: would you mind doing an image review on this one? I've gone through and tried to correct any issues that I could see, but it would probably be best if someone else could take a look, too. Cheers. AustralianRupert (talk) 01:08, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • Suggest scaling up the map
  • File:Lesser_badge_of_the_Canadian_Army.svg: what's the copyright status of the original design?
  • File:2_Canadian_Infantry_Division_patch.png isn't sufficiently original to qualify for copyright protection. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:01, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I believe that this article is probably good enough to keep its A-class assessment now. Are there any objections to closing this now? Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 11:25, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep -- Without having gone through the article in detail, I see no prima facie reason not to; Rupert and others have done solid work, the issue of the problematic title has been resolved, everything is cited, and structurally it looks better than it has in a long time. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:42, 19 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article no longer meets A-Class criteria - Peacemaker67 (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 01:20, 10 March 2020 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Instructions for nominators and reviewers

Nominator(s): Zawed (talk)

Battle of Strasbourg (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

I am nominating this article for A-Class review because it appears to be well below our A-Class standard, and would need quite a bit of work to bring it up to standard. It has already been demoted via adjustment of the assessment criteria but would appreciate formal confirmation of its delisting as an A-Class article. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 03:48, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for putting this up. Hopefully it will either draw some editors in who can help improve the article, or it can determine consensus to demote. By way of some background, some of the concerns raised about the article in its current state can be found at this version of the MILHIST talk page: [23] Additionally, the previous ACR was in 2008 and can be found here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Battle of Strasbourg/archive1. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 06:46, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Iazyges and Cplakidas: Sorry for the ping, but I wonder if either of you have any recent sources that might help reference and improve this article? Based on some of your past noms, this might be an area you have some knowledge of, I think (please correct me if I am wrong). Unfortunately, it seems that the original A-class nominator from 2008 (Wandalstouring) seems to be no longer active. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 07:10, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Goldsworthy's In the Name of Rome springs to mind, he has an entire chapter devoted to Julian's operations in Gaul. Ammianus' Julian: Narrative and Genre in the Res Gestae is also an important critical look into Ammianus' narrative (which is the main source) and the possible motivation and purpose behind its depiction(s) of Julian. I also remember reading Constantius II: Usurpers, Eunuchs and the Antichrist, which had a description of the battle with some interesting observations. There are also a few biographies of Julian that I haven't read, but which certainly ought to be used. Even Osprey has since published a Campaign series book on the battle, which might be interesting to at least look at. In brief, there's no shortage of sources, although I want to point out that the over-reliance on a primary source (Ammianus) is not in itself a problem, nor uncommon with ancient battles: he is the only detailed source, and the narrative will perforce rely on him. The problem is rather that Ammianus is used without being 'verified' by modern sources, and used to cite a lot of what appears to be personal reflection and analysis. I am too busy in other projects and real life right now, and the article is simply too large, else I might attempt to salvage this myself. I am not sure if this is his cup of tea, but perhaps Gog the Mild might be interested as well. Constantine 11:26, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I imagine that Gog the Mild will be a big fan of the "neat little rectangles in dead straight lines on the map"! Harrias talk 18:04, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I am interested, it would be my cup of tea, and I have a couple of the sources, including Goldsworthy, but sadly I am also too busy with other projects to spare the time for this right now.
@Harrias: I don't know what you mean. I am sure that the Germans in particular lined up exactly as shown, dressing their lines with Teutonic efficiency. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:47, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you all for taking a look. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 21:38, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

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General comment from Harrias

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Obviously the sourcing is the main issue here. Many statements are completely unsourced, and what is given relies very heavily on primary sources. If no significant work is completed on this (beginning with a complete overhaul of the sources), then I would support delisting. Harrias talk 09:16, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Gog the Mild

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  • This is a very long article, going into quite a bit of detail; and so arguably fails A2: "does not go into unnecessary detail".
  • The language is ok, and not, IMO, a reason - on its own - for demotion, but if it were up for ACR I would personally want quite a lot of copy editing and tweaking before I would support it on A4: "The article/list is written in concise and articulate English; its prose is clear, is in line with style guidelines, and does not require substantial copy-editing to be fully MoS-compliant." Gog the Mild (talk) 18:53, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "File:07 constantius2Chrono354.png" lacks a US PD tag.
  • As does "File:Greatpalacemosaic.jpg" Both easily resolvable of course.

To come off the fence - Delist, on A2. Gog the Mild (talk) 02:16, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delist by Nick-D

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Delist The very heavy reliance on a literally ancient primary source means that WP:V isn't met. There are several modern secondary sources on this battle, including an Osprey Publishing book from a few years ago, so there should be little need to use ancient sources. Nick-D (talk) 10:15, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delist

Overreliance on ancient primary source of dubious reliability means that it fails source review. This is so bad it's verging on {{one source}} territory. buidhe 15:13, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delist: Unfortunately, it doesn't appear this one will be able to be brought back up to standard at this time, so I would suggest delisting. No prejudice about it being brought back to ACR some time in the future. Thank you all for sharing your opinions. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 21:38, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delist by CPA-5

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  • This is even far from B-class. I recommend delisting this article to start. Per above comments I believe it doesn't meet b1 and b2 which is for me good enough to delist it. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 12:29, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article no longer meets A-Class criteria - Hawkeye7 (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 20:20, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Instructions for nominators and reviewers

Nominator(s): Schierbecker (talk)

Heuschrecke 10 (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

A-class reappraisal of this article.

I mean no disrespect to the original author but this article is terrible. Most of the content is cited to Achtung Panzer, an enthusiast military history site. Does not pass muster even remotely.

No safe version to revert to. Schierbecker (talk) 02:21, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


No consensus to promote at this time - Sturmvogel 66 (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 03:20, 25 November 2019 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Instructions for nominators and reviewers

Nominator(s): Peacemaker67 (talk)

Cold War (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

I am nominating this article for A-Class review because it was recently de-listed at GAR and it appears to be well below our A-Class standard, and needs quite a bit of work to meet it. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:04, 10 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delist, I have skimmed over this, and these are my initial issues, before even going into a detailed prose review:
  • The lead is far, far too long. (Even by my own standards.)
  • There are too many images, and these often pinch the text.
  • There are (by my count) 20 "citation needed" tags, and 7 "citation not found" tags.
  • Many of the book references don't provide page numbers.
  • There are quite a few basic formatting issues, not least the eighth paragraph of the Third World escalations section.
  • While many paragraphs are long, and have a tendency towards over-detail, there are also some single sentence paragraphs.

Overall, this needs a lot of love and attention to get it up to A-class standard. Harrias talk 14:03, 12 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delist - Some citation problems, too many images, use of quotes when prose could be employed, inadequate explanation of events in Africa and things like death of Dag Hammarskjöld go without mention. -Indy beetle (talk) 07:37, 14 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delist - Where shall I even start? First, those templates about having a too-long lead and the article itself. Second, it looks terribly with its chaotic images are in the wrong places. And as of last like everyone else, this article lacks reliable citations this article doesn't derve to be an A-class. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 21:36, 24 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
  1. ^ Luttwak (1976) 173
  2. ^ Jones (1964) 649–51
  3. ^ Elton (1996) 99
  4. ^ Lee (1997) 234
  5. ^ Goldsworthy (2000) 172
  6. ^ Codex Justinianus XII.35.15
  7. ^ Goldsworthy (2003) 203
  8. ^ Tomlin (1988) 112
  9. ^ Elton (1996) 206
  10. ^ Goldsworthy (2000) 172