Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/China

WP:DSZH

This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to China. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

Adding a new AfD discussion

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Edit this page and add {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PageName}} to the top of the list. Replace "PageName" with the relevant article name, i.e. the one on the existing AFD discussion. Also, indicate the title of the article in the edit summary as it is particularly helpful to add a link to the article in the edit summary. When you save the page, the discussion will automatically appear.
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Other types of discussions

You can also add and remove other discussions (prod, CfD, TfD etc.) related to China. For the other XfD's, the process is the same as AfD (except {{Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/PageName}} is used for MFD and {{transclude xfd}} for the rest). For PRODs, adding a link with {{prodded}} will suffice.

Further information

For further information see Wikipedia's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.

This list is also part of the larger list of deletion debates related to Asia.

Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:

WikiProject Deletion sorting/China/archive

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See also: Wikipedia:China-related topics notice board

China

Sheng Peng

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Playing 391 minutes in the Chinese first league, 90 minutes in the second league and some matches in the third league is a weak claim to notability. The sources are not enough to rectify that, and as such he fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Geschichte (talk) 13:38, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and China. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 16:03, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:53, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jin Dachuan

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Not notable. — Moriwen (talk) 15:42, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Beauty pageants and China. — Moriwen (talk) 15:42, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Duanju

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Non-notable topic - the MIT source does not mention the article title, and the Chinese source seems to be a primary source and/or blog. LR.127 (talk) 23:15, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Entertainment and China. LR.127 (talk) 23:15, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Internet-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:10, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:NEXISTS I was able easily to find, for example:

Peoples Daily Overseas Ed., AV Market Ushering in a Short Drama Boom 视听市场迎来“短剧热 [1] explaining the phenomenon in many paragraphs
Guangming Daily News, A Taste of "Cool" and "Sweet" - Don't let these short dramas dominate your life 一味“爽”与“甜” 　别让微短剧离生活越来越远 [2] a Zhejiang Normal University professor commenting on these videos

If there are any concerns about these sources, feel free to say so and I will continue my search.

I don't think the Guangzhou Daily News source linked in the article[3] is a blog entry, since it has a byline and doesn't have a disclaimer about user-generated content. I can't see any way it would be primary. Did I miss something?

Not specifically directed at this editor, but I have noticed a lot of nominations for poorly sourced China-related articles which have substantial native language coverage. To be sure, the problem starts with editors who create poorly sourced articles on China-related topics. But these nominations put a burden on a small number of en.wikipedia editors who follow this board and can handle Chinese language sources. The burden (per WP:BEFORE) is to do a reasonable search, and I believe a search that doesn't fully embrace native language articles is unlikely to be a reasonable one. Oblivy (talk) 00:18, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep: I found even better sources by searching for "微短劇" (Wei Duanju, an alternative term for Duanju), which provided me with full articles detailing the history and trends of Duanju from BBC News[4], Initium Media[5], China Times[6], Public Television Service[7], and Sing Tao Daily[8]. Additionally, I found articles from Xinhua News Agency [9] and China News Service [10] using the term "短劇," as well as sources like Wen Wei Po discussing policies the Chinese government is set to implement regarding Duanju[11], and a United Daily News article covering recently popular Duanjus[12]. GNG is clearly fulfilled, and I agree with Oblivy that no BEFORE was conducted before this nomination. Besides, the second source in the article is indeed from Guangzhou Daily[13]. It is certainly not a "primary source and/or blog", it is a national newspaper. The nominator has clearly provided a flawed source assessment. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 13:11, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Liang Yongfeng

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Failure of WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Played 15 games in Hong Kong and nothing else. Sources are WP:ROUTINE at best. Geschichte (talk) 06:35, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and China. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 12:41, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:43, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 17:50, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jades broken

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The article doesn't meet the requirements of WP:N. Frost 05:20, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Poetry and China. Shellwood (talk) 09:33, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Hong Kong-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:54, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - searching on the Chinese name and on Liu Nan's Chinese name, all I find is Wikipedia, 2 articles on Medium, not a reliable source, and one Taiwanese library recording its book holdings. This does not look like a notable subject. Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:36, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He Qianqian

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It does not meet the notability guideline for musicians. Frost 05:23, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Women, and China. Shellwood (talk) 09:31, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pu Zhongjie

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Declined prod. Prod was removed with a source that is a 1 line mention of Pu. Created by a single purpose editor. Google news has a mere 2 hits. Would reconsider if significant coverage can be found in Chinese. LibStar (talk) 02:54, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Medicine, and China. LibStar (talk) 02:54, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete based on sources in the article. One is a press release, the others are not sigcov. The article itself has basically zero encyclopedic value, consisting entirely of companies he works at and his net worth. I tried looking for Chinese sources – there are some [14][15][16], but independence is questionable and it all probably doesn't add up to meet the GNG. FWIW, I also think the GNG should be strictly enforced for businesspeople à la NCORP. Toadspike [Talk] 18:44, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. To paraphrase the line from Hello, Dolly! (film), $380 million doesn’t get you notability, unless you spread it around like manure encouraging little things to grow, and get significant coverage in three or more reliable sources. Other than that, he’s one of thousands of newly minted rich people. Bearian (talk) 19:54, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GEMO (Skin Care Device)

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Fails WP:NCORP. The company website, press releases, and industry award web pages are not sources from which the notability of a product can be determined. —Alalch E. 15:07, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Products and China. —Alalch E. 15:07, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - It has considerable popularity in this niche market in China. [17] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iuliusnanus (talk • contribs) 20:53, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Promotional content. As a paid editor, you should be especially discerning of promotional and unusable sources. I presume that you are paid to write articles that will be kept, not deleted. If you cannot distinguish between usable and unusable sources, the articles you create will be deleted, and your clients will not be satisfied. —Alalch E. 21:44, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete based on the following source assessment:

Official website.
Extremely promotional news article.
Press release.
Some sort of design description written by this product's makers.
Extremely short description similar to above.
Another non-independent description of the product.

None of these meet the requirements of the GNG. The link added by Iuliusnanus above is sigcov (independence unclear), but one source alone is not enough to demonstrate notability. Toadspike [Talk] 18:37, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shijiazhuang Donghua Jinlong

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lacks significant coverage from reliable sources, failing to meet Wikipedia's notability standards. Loewstisch (talk) 13:17, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. Loewstisch (talk) 13:17, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:57, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep there's plenty on the TikTok incident, and I just added a short (about 1 paragraph) cite from New Yorker and an entire article from SCMP from just three weeks ago. Article needs to have some more support for their role in the global glycine market -- it's verifiable (see, e.g., [18]) but notability is from the TikTok incident which continues to be reported on. Oblivy (talk) 01:50, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Huang Pu

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. References are not significant and he has played only 9 games in China's third league as well as some in Portuguese amateur leagues. Geschichte (talk) 14:40, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and China. Shellwood (talk) 14:54, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 18:13, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:17, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT. Has not played in top professional level in China or Portugal. LibStar (talk) 11:39, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stewart Tan Seng Teong

AfDs for this article:

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Previous AfD outcome was redirect. I could find no sources for full name or just first and last names. Does not meet WP:BIO. LibStar (talk) 10:40, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Motorsport, and China. LibStar (talk) 10:40, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Zhuhai International Circuit (with the history preserved under the redirect), where the subject is already mentioned, per Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Alternatives to deletion.
A redirect with the history preserved under the redirect will allow editors to selectively merge any content that can be reliably sourced to the target article. A redirect with the history preserved under the redirect will allow the redirect to be undone if significant coverage in reliable sources is found in the future. Cunard (talk) 09:42, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- The subject is mentioned at Zhuhai International Circuit#A1 Grand Prix. The only nontrivial source I could find was this interview^{Internet Archive} in the magazine Car and You (simplified Chinese: 汽车与你; traditional Chinese: 汽車與你). The subject does not pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 09:42, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 16:08, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cai Haojian

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Played a couple of minutes in the Chinese Super League, as well as a loan in the third league. Sources are WP:ROUTINE and I don't see anything else that can help it pass. Geschichte (talk) 07:22, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and China. Shellwood (talk) 10:05, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 10:07, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 12:58, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep – Chinese sources (sports.sina.com.cn) demonstrate the minimum to establish WP:SIGCOV. Svartner (talk) 12:32, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 10:35, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 state visit by Kais Saied to China

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There is no indication of notability for this visit. The sources are almost entirely government press releases and should be more WP:DIVERSE for independent notability. The page should be deleted and perhaps parts merged into the main Kais Saied article. Amigao (talk) 13:50, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians, Bilateral relations, Events, Tunisia, and China. Skynxnex (talk) 14:13, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP - Kais Saied is the President of Tunisia. This is an official State visit and as such, notability is an extremely big deal. I linked an independent English language source (2024 China-United States Exchange Foundation) under External links. I also linked a Brookings Institution commentary under External Links. They're building valuable contacts in a world that seems to be exploding, "Although there is no visible alienation between Tunisia and the European Union, the gradual distancing between Tunisia and the United States has become increasingly apparent." — Maile (talk) 00:47, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep, with no prejudice against a merge to the very empty China–Tunisia relations. The coverage and arguments provided by Maile to me, indicate that this event is likely to be notable (but not guaranteed) under WP:GEOSCOPE. I can see a benefit for having a summary of the event merged into the China-Tunisia relations article, (lack of analysis by secondary sources leaves this article as mostly a summary of what each government said about the event) but I view that more as an editorial decision than an AFD one. GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 21:26, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merging this into the almost empty China–Tunisia relations makes sense. - Amigao (talk) 00:26, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The more I'm thinking about it, the more it makes sense. The two countries have diplomatic relations, but they seem very minimal. Documenting the visit in that article would help provide a clearer picture to the readers - especially because my keep vote is based more on the fact that I think secondary sources analysing this event are more likely going to exist in the near future than not. GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 19:00, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
KEEP Kais Saied is the president of Tunisia, and the president's visit to China in 2024 has brought diplomatic relations to the level of a "strategic partnership", meaning that future communication between the two sides will no longer be limited to the central government, but can be decentralized to the level of provincial and municipal cooperation, with direct cooperation in trade and military affairs as well. The same applies to direct cooperation in trade and military matters. China–Tunisia relations for sure, I think it could be worth significantly upgrading the content, and I will add it soon. TinaLees-Jones (talk) 14:56, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to China–Tunisia relations. This is a news article and lacks proper coverage, absolutely no reason for it to have its own article independently of the main subject. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 07:44, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: keep or merge?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, asilvering (talk) 14:24, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

CPC and World Political Parties Summit

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This one-off video conference fails WP:EVENTCRITERIA. No WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE and no indication of WP:LASTING effect whatsoever. Amigao (talk) 00:14, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Politics, and China. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:34, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The ideas of "No continued coverage" or "no lasting effect" is readily shown to be wrong by the second source, a 2023 academic book discussing the topic over multiple pages. In addition, we currently have multi-language coverage. "Video conference" should not suggest unimportance given the scope and period - event included 500 political parties and 10,000 individual representatives and was conducted in 2021 when China was still quite protective on COVID19 matters. JArthur1984 (talk) 00:50, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: I'm not sure how notable the book source cited is, as it's not an online reference. I can bring up news coverage of the event in 2021. Sourcing is largely in academic journals, into 2023 at least [19], where it's discussed as part of China's larger influence in the world. Oaktree b (talk) 01:34, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for spotting. We should incorporate more journal articles.

Current book academic source I referred to is from the notable Suisheng Zhao and published by Stanford University Press JArthur1984 (talk) 12:43, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. So, participants, do you believe the existing sources are sufficient for establishing GNG?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:10, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes for me, and I also incorporated the 2023 academic source identified by Oaktree b's. JArthur1984 (talk) 02:11, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hong Kong related deletions

Jades broken

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The article doesn't meet the requirements of WP:N. Frost 05:20, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Poetry and China. Shellwood (talk) 09:33, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Hong Kong-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:54, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - searching on the Chinese name and on Liu Nan's Chinese name, all I find is Wikipedia, 2 articles on Medium, not a reliable source, and one Taiwanese library recording its book holdings. This does not look like a notable subject. Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:36, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Peter J. Levesque

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No indication of significance. References are PR, profiles, appointment news and non-salient coverage. Fails WP:SIGCOV, WP:BIO. UPE. scope_creep^Talk 22:01, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors, Businesspeople, Hong Kong, United States of America, Illinois, Massachusetts, New Jersey, and Washington, D.C.. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 02:24, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: I don't find coverage about this person, Gnews has only PR items. He wrote a book "he Shipping Point: The Rise of China and The Future of Retail Supply Chain..." but I don't find any reviews. These appear to be republished articles [20], [21]. I don't see AUTHOR or business person notability. Oaktree b (talk) 01:00, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete for lack of significant coverage. All of the references cited are literally one page each. That’s fleeting, not significant. To be notable, an author needs articles about him and reviews of his books, not just the book itself. We are not a gazette of every business person and/or book author. It’s 2024, and while our readers might not know all of our policies, everyone knows that we don’t have an article about everyone ever mentioned in a newspaper. Bearian (talk) 18:46, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jason Gunawan

AfDs for this article:

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Fails NBAD. Stvbastian (talk) 06:16, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Badminton, and Hong Kong. Stvbastian (talk) 06:16, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Addition: I have read the 1st nomination, but no one cares about this article. Better this article move to draft.Stvbastian (talk) 06:30, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, which says:
People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject.
- If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability.
Sources
1. Ho, Kelly (2020-01-06). "Diocesan Boys' School student and badminton star Jason Gunawan follows in his father's footsteps". South China Morning Post. Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.
  The article notes: "At some point, every athlete dreams of making it to the Olympics, but local badminton prodigy Jason Gunawan has had his heart set on competing at the sporting event since he was four years old. Jason, who celebrated his second consecutive win in the boys’ singles event at the All Hong Kong Schools Jing Ying Tournament last Monday, says he has been dreaming of Olympic glory ever since he watched Chinese player Lin Dan take gold at the 2008 Beijing Olympics. ... A love of badminton runs in Jason’s family. His father, a Chinese Indonesian, used to play for the Jakarta province team. As a child, Jason would head to the local sports centre with his father every Sunday to practise, eventually earning a spot on the Hong Kong junior team. He now trains 30 hours a week at the Hong Kong Sports Institute, but still finds time to practise with his dad, his biggest supporter."
2. Cheung, Ka-Wa 徐嘉華 (2024-05-25). "羽毛球｜由外圍賽打至8強止步吳英倫下月生日願望：今年闖入世界排名頭30" [Badminton｜ From qualifying to the top 8, Jason Gunawan's birthday wish next month: to break into the top 30 in the world this year]. Sing Tao Daily (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.
  The article notes: "父母是印尼華僑的Jason，曾於2020年以最年輕球手（當時16歲）奪全港錦標賽男單冠軍，可惜一場疫情斷送足足3年的青少年比賽，直到2022年5月才開始由低（國際挑戰賽級別）打起，... Jason今年初繼續參加「國際挑戰賽」，亦遇到一些「超級300」的比賽，世界排名由年初105位到本月泰國公開賽（超級500）時是96位，他在該賽的16強，遇上世界排名第5的日本球星奈良岡功大，雙方拉鋸3局，港將只在決勝局輸「刁時」（21:11、 15:21、20:22)，世界排名升至本周的83位。"
  From Google Translate: "Jason, whose parents are Indonesian overseas Chinese, won the men's singles championship in the Hong Kong Championships in 2020 as the youngest golfer (16 years old at the time). Unfortunately, a pandemic ruined the youth competition for three full years, and it was not until May 2022 that it started. Starting from a low (International Challenge level),... Jason continued to participate in the "International Challenge" at the beginning of this year, and also encountered some "Super 300" competitions. His world ranking increased from 105th at the beginning of the year to this month's Thailand Open (Super 500). ) was ranked 96th at the time. In the top 16 of the tournament, he met Japanese star Kodai Naraoka, who was ranked fifth in the world. The two sides went back and forth for 3 games. The Hong Kong player only lost to "Diao Shi" in the decisive game (21:11, 15 :21, 20:22), the world ranking rose to 83rd this week."
3. Chan, Kin-wa (2020-11-15). "Jason Gunawan crowned youngest-ever Hong Kong men's badminton champion at 16". South China Morning Post. Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.
  The article notes: "Jason Gunawan became the youngest-ever men’s singles champion at the annual Hong Kong badminton championships at Kowloon Park Sports Centre on Sunday, thanks partly to his decision to turn to full-time training amid the pandemic. Just three months after cutting short his secondary school studies to pursue a full-time sporting career at the Sports Institute, the 16-year-old teenager reigned supreme in the three-game final against Chan Yin-chak, winning 21-19, 17-21, 21-13 to put himself in the record books."
4. Chan, Kin-wa (2020-12-01). "Young gun Jason Gunawan sets sights on winning Olympic gold for Hong Kong". South China Morning Post. Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.
  The article notes: "Outside of Hong Kong there is badminton legend Tony Gunawan, the 2000 Sydney Olympic men’s doubles champion of Indonesia. Here in Hong Kong there is 16-year-old Jason Gunawan, a fast-rising talent now setting his sights on becoming another Olympic gold-medal winner like his namesake. ... Gunawan will not be present in Tokyo either as he is still competing in junior events, but the 2024 Paris Games will be his first attempt at making the step up to Olympic level, with the Los Angeles Games four years later his major target for a medal. ... Born in Hong Kong with an Indonesian-Chinese father, Gunawan was destined to make a name in badminton before he was even born, he said."
5. Ng, Chia Yin (2024-05-24). "Jason: I thank coach Wong for helping me grow". The Star. Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.
  The article notes: "Hong Kong’s rising star Jason Gunawan appreciated coach Wong Choong Hann’s role in the growth of his career after checking into the men’s singles quarter-finals in the Malaysian Masters. ... Jason, who will be turning 20 next month, is expecting a tougher job against world No. 19 Lu Guangzu of China next but looking forward to gaining invaluable experience."
6. Chiu, Tsz-chun 趙子晉 (2023-09-14). "羽毛球．香港賽｜李卓耀不敵基斯迪衛冕失敗　吳英倫力追世界距離" [Badminton: Hong Kong Open｜ Lee Cheuk Yiu Fails to Defend Title Against Kistkidis, Jason Gunawan Closes the Gap to World Rankings] (in Chinese). HK01. Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.
  The article notes: "吳英倫決勝局初段把握對方情緒不穩，多次放高波予甘克起板，Jason曾經領先5：2，甘克一度滑倒倒地。惟Jason體力有所下降，... 年僅19歲的吳英倫，以往主力出戰青年賽為主，就算越級挑戰成年組也是大多是國際挑戰賽級別，主場的香港賽是他生涯首個BWF 500分的賽事。"
  From Google Translate: "Jason Gunawan took advantage of his opponent's emotional instability in the early stage of the decisive game and sent high waves to Gan Ke several times. Jason once led 5:2, but Gan Ke once slipped and fell to the ground. But Jason's physical strength has declined... Jason Gunawan, who is only 19 years old, has mainly competed in youth competitions in the past. Even if he jumps to the adult group, most of them are international challenge competitions. The Hong Kong competition at home is his first BWF 500 in his career. points competition."
There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Jason Gunawan (traditional Chinese: 吳英倫; simplified Chinese: 吴英伦) to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".
Cunard (talk) 09:10, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The first two sources—the South China Morning Post and Sing Tao Daily articles—provide substantial coverage about the subject, which enable him to meet Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline. The other sources also provide significant to less significant coverage about him (they discuss him in their headlines and cover biographical details about him in the article). The sources all contribute to notability because Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria says "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability." Cunard (talk) 09:10, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to solicit more opinions.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:19, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep or Speedy keep per WP:CSK#1b. There is no new deletion rationale presented in this nomination compared to the previous one which was closed as keep. The sources cited by Cunard are literally identical to those listed in the previous nomination, and multiple Wikipedians have already reviewed and affirmed that these sources are sufficient to meet GNG. Deletion is not cleanup. I do not see a point to delete/drafity an article when numerous usable sources are already presented. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 14:49, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: If the article should be keep, the statements and the sources should be move to Jason Gunawan wikipedia article. It is very uncomfortable to see the article with that statement: "Jason Gunawan is a Hong Kong badminton player." In other words, if i just look at the statement, there is nothing special about the subject. But, i still in my opinion to draft this article. Because it is too soon for a badminton player that did not meet NBAD. Stvbastian (talk) 15:39, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of entertainment events at AsiaWorld–Expo

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at AsiaWorld–Expo (2nd nomination)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. mikeblas (talk) 14:37, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Entertainment, Events, Lists, and Hong Kong. Shellwood (talk) 15:11, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, already at AFD so not eligible for Soft Deletion,
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:28, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 10:37, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of entertainment events at Central Harbourfront Event Space

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at Central Harbourfront Event Space (2nd nomination)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. Weakly defined inclusion criteria. mikeblas (talk) 14:19, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Entertainment, Events, Lists, and Hong Kong. Skynxnex (talk) 14:57, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, already at AFD so not eligible for Soft Deletion,
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:26, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 10:36, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Taiwan related deletions

Running Man (Taiwanese TV series)

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No assertion of notability. Cabayi (talk) 11:13, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Television and Taiwan. Cabayi (talk) 11:13, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep: A quick search provided me with sources from Sing Tao Daily[22], Central News Agency[23], Liberty Times[24][25], ETtoday[26], Nownews[27][28], Mirror Media[29], Up Media [zh][30], etc., along with interviews with the director[31] and the lead cast[32][33], clearly fulfilling GNG and NTV. Besides, the series is produced by Videoland Television Network, a nationwide cable TV network in Taiwan, which also fulfills NTVNATL. No BEFORE was conducted before this nomination. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 12:51, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: the sources identified by Prince of Erebor allow to verify this is notable enough. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 16:31, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Taipei Economic and Cultural Office in Guam

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Non notable consulate. Mccapra (talk) 07:55, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Taiwan and Oceania. Mccapra (talk) 07:55, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bilateral relations-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 08:04, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Diplomatic representation on this level rarely meets WP:ORGCRIT, can't find anything to indicate this case is different. AusLondonder (talk) 12:14, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all the sources are primary except 6 and 7. For this source, it's a small mention of the office so doesn't meet WP:SIGCOV. Fails WP:ORG. LibStar (talk) 01:37, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Gold Apollo AR924

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Doesn't seem to pass WP:NPRODUCT. Seems only notable within the context of the 2024 Lebanon pager explosions, and doesn't appear to warrant a standalone article. Article did not exist prior to the explosions, nor seemingly any reliable sources covering it, failing the "sustained coverage" requirement of NPRODUCT. Hemiauchenia (talk) 00:00, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Products, Technology, Taiwan, Lebanon, and Hungary. Hemiauchenia (talk) 00:00, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Copying here what I wrote when I WP:PRODded this article yesterday:

This particular model of pager seems to be notable only in the context of the 2024 Lebanon pager explosions. I can find no mention of "Gold Apollo AR-924," "Gold Apollo AR924" or "Gold Apollo AR" outside of news sources reporting the Israeli bombings. "Gold Apollo pager" returns only results for these news articles, the company's website, patent documents, and similar. The sources currently cited at the article fail the criteria for addressing the article topic "directly," as in the "significant coverage" criteria of WP:GNG.

While the particular model of pager is likely to receive a good amount of (temporary) media scrutiny from a few outlets, this will likely be only in the context of the above-mentioned bombings. Although WP:SUSTAINED does not apply to non-BLP articles, WP:NPRODUCT does, and although secondary sources refer to this particular device, there seems to be no claim to notability outside of this single event, for which we already have an article. Thus, I believe this article fails to establish notability for the topic, and our status as not an indiscriminate collection of information is applicable. Evan ^{(talk|contribs)} 00:06, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The model exists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x50wwGjX2Ao

and

https://web.archive.org/web/20240917160632/https://www.apollosystemshk.com/product/42.html Mheretakis (talk) 23:06, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well yes, we know it exists, that's not the issue being discussed. Oaktree b (talk) 00:40, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be wise to wait as evidence unfolds, hiding the page ,may be misinterpreted as corruption even though it is not. 38.9.2.102 (talk) 11:46, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nobody here is suggesting this information should be hidden. Information about the attack has it's own article. The only information specific to this article is just the features of this device, which are not secret. This discussion is about if this article is notable enough to exist, not if it should be censored. Thank you 2603:6011:9440:D700:CC1F:F350:E9EB:5F48 (talk) 13:15, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete No other model of pager produced by the company exists on Wikipedia, information related to this product should be at most made a small section on the manufacturer's page. Beyond recent events, it is otherwise completely irrelevant to anything other than the company. JohnWarosa (talk) 01:21, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete was a completely non-notable model of pager until this recent news story. Andre🚐 01:24, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~Keep~~ → Speedy keep. This is a weapon used in an attack. With up to 4000 victims, the event can have multiple articles. Possibly move to BAC Consulting. The technical details of the pager are not important, but the supply chain is. Note, that other weapons (talkie-talkies) were also used in the attack. The key question the article needs to answer is who made the pagers and who is responsible for their safety, Gold Apollo or BAC Consulting. Protecting Gold Apollo from bad publicity is not a reason for deleting the article. If they go bankrupt because of this, they fully deserve it. They had a responsibility to protect their trade mark.

P.S. - Wikipedia has an article on Stuxnet, but no article on the attack itself or the damage it caused. The Stuxnet article focuses on the weapon and on how it was delivered. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 01:48, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is very flawed. The weapon was the explosives. Stuxnet was specific malware that exploited four zero day Windows vulnerabilities, and the article is about the engineered malware, and not about the model of USB drive it initially infected. But also that argument is off the point. The pager product is only notable if there are reliable independent secondary sources that significantly discuss the pager (not the attack, but the actual pager). Do we have any such sources? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 07:34, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Petri Krohn; There is an article for the attack itself. Parham wiki (talk) 13:31, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am now changing my !vote to speedy keep. It is becoming evident that the AR924 was not just some random Gold Apollo pager intercepted by Mossad (presumedly), but it was designed and manufactured by the Israelis using the Hungarian company BAC Consulting as a front. This implies that this was a multi-year Israeli operation, started in 2022 at the latest. This covert operation is distinct from the bloodshed that happened in Lebanon this week. I am redirecting BAC Consulting, to the article, as evidently the fake company had no other purpose than to produce these killer pagers.

@Parham wiki; Thank you for the link to Operation Olympic Games. In the Stuxnet case the article on the weapon is ten times as long as the article on the attack itself. I believe we will see a similar trend here. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 19:41, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. - Someone has stated Draft:BAC Consulting. I have suggested that it be merged to Gold Apollo AR924. The company is a fake front, established solely to produce the AR924 killer pagers. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 20:11, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You should only bold one of your keeps. By convention at AfD we only bold our !votes once. Also you have not specified a speedy criterion. I don't think any are eligible. I think you mean you are moving from keep to keep. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 19:53, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Gold Apollo#2024 Israeli tampering and explosions in Lebanon per WP:REDUNDANTFORK, WP:SPINOUT, and WP:LENGTH. The parent article has existed since 2014 and has plenty of room to house this information, which is already there in its essential form. No need to delete this highly searchable term since it is a verified product which has been rendered notable by recent events. Havradim leaf a message 01:57, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Many thousands of these devices exploded the other day, injuring, maiming or killing nearly 3000 people. This device is now by far the most notable pager/beeper ever made. This device is at the very center of one of the most dramatic and historic espionage and irregular warfare operations in human history that is certain to be studied and analyzed for many years to come. Already, numerous reliable sources worldwide are discussing this device in great detail, and it boggles my mind that some editors think that this article should be summarily removed. Cullen328 (talk) 08:28, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The flaw in this argument is that the exact make and model of pager that was manipulated does not provide justification for an article. Similarly, we have Bulgarian umbrella that details how umbrellas have been rebuilt into a murder weapon - but without creating an article on the actual model of umbrella that was modified - exactly because the make and model of the modified implement does not in itself provide it with notability. Lklundin (talk) 11:45, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that model may have only been made as a weapon by a covert manufacturer. Hungary denies involvement, says BAC was just a legal front. The page should be about AR924 the weapon. Keysersmoze (talk) 09:38, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The point is that the discussion of this device and the supply chain should be in the main explosion article, which is currently a small fraction of the size that would warrant a WP:SIZESPLIT. Hemiauchenia (talk) 13:25, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per arguments of Cullen328. PhotographyEdits (talk) 09:10, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Per the arguments of Cullen328 the information about the attack is highly important. A separate article on the pager that itself is notable only for the attack prevents a centralized and well organized presentation of the information on these explosions. Lklundin (talk) 09:14, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or move to BAC page. Please count my vote. Flegozoff (talk) 12:04, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Votes are not counted, consensus is determined based on the strength of arguments. PhotographyEdits (talk) 12:47, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The event is a historical first time. This product became important, indeed people looked on Wikipedia for this article (and it is good that they found it).Sinucep (talk) 14:09, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The device is notable. Whether or not it was notable a week ago is irrelevant. —danhash (talk) 14:10, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is it? What sources do we have? I asked this above and so far we have been presented with no sources to consider. We are looking for significant coverage of the product in multiple reliable independent secondary sources. No amount of saying it is notable is good enough. Where are the sources? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 15:30, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are currently 19 sources on the article —danhash (talk) 16:32, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Which of these meet WP:NPRODUCT and WP:SIRS? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 16:44, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

keep I am a deletionist when it comes to mobiles, and similar devices. But as this device was a centre/key point in a major attack, many reliable sources have covered the device significantly (thus meeting WP:significant coverage) making it pass the WP:GNG, so it doesn't have to pass WP:NPRODUCT specifically. —usernamekiran (talk) 19:58, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. There are already articles for both the attack and the company who had the pager manufactured. Some information could go there. There are a lot of sources mentioning the pager, but only in the context of the attack. Specific coverage is lacking. Cortador (talk) 21:06, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The alleged usage of this device in Lebanon makes this particular model of pager notable, regardless of whether similar models are on Wikipedia. Those similar models did not just explode in masse, killing and injuring people. 96.45.23.79 (talk) 15:19, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep If it was not notable before, the major attacks using this device make it notable now. Keeper of the Queen's Corgis (talk) 16:52, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Edited and updated, not deleted. It should be about the AR924 mass produced and used in conflict weapon, not an article about a pager model. The story is developing and it appears this model may have only been produced as a weapon and not in Hungary which was a shell front. As a page about a weapon, it should be kept for the same reason "Little Boy" has a page, even though no one heard about it until after it exploded over Hiroshima, and it was also only used once. I am sure there is a page about the Manhattan Project, and one about the Hiroshima bombing. Yet the bomb itself has its own page. Notable weapons, especially the first of their type, need their own page because weapons have a design, explosive type and mass, range and effect, delivery method, an assembly, a development process, country that developed it, countries that possess it, number produced, uses in war. The AR924 is clearly notable for reasons mentioned by others and some of the reasons Little Boy is notable. Keysersmoze (talk) 08:44, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Keeper of the Queen's Corgis and Cullen328, but most of all per Keysersmoze's comment above. The first instance of an entirely new kind of weapon; mass-manufactured booby-trapped remote-detonated personal devices. — The Anome (talk) 07:56, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, if these are specifically manufactured as a booby trap device and are not a standard pager that was modified with a logic board and explosive, then it clearly becomes notable. But, what are the secondary sources that show this please? We have a lot of keeps, but still there is still no source discussion at all. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 11:36, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment given this article is not notable outside the attack on Hezbollah - and given half the article is about the attack, what if this page is deleted and a brief summary of the features of these pager's features is added to 2024 Lebanon pager explosions, as it could provide a little context as to why Hezbollah chose these pagers. Once deleted, this article and BAC Consulting should redirect to 2024 Lebanon pager explosions, as both are solely notable for that attack (BAC Consulting was created exclusively for the attack; it can't be notable for anything else). If these pagers were used in another completely separate attack, or were popular outside of Hezbollah/Lebanon and Syria prior to the attack, then I would keep. However, that is not the case. We don't have a crystal ball, but it seems unlikely very many people will buy this specific brand after this incident.2603:6011:9440:D700:CC1F:F350:E9EB:5F48 (talk) 13:09, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with 2024 Lebanon pager explosions - the model was at the center of the attack, and outside of it is not notable. 三葉草 San Yeh Tsao 18:18, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep As the story behind the logistical “capture” of the Hezbollah supply chain gets into the public domain, it will ensure the notability of the Gold Apollo AR924 as a weapon. Article is also already available in three other languages. Sobaka (talk) 10:13, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep While right now this device is mentioned only in conjunction with the 2024-09-17 Lebanon pager attack, I'm pretty sure that more details will become public in the near (and not-so-near) future.

Some of these details - especially these relating to the attack design and implementation - would be verrrrry interesting to lots of people, e.g. your humble servant. Deleting this page would deprive potential contributors of the "Base Hook"for their contribution. Note that Wikipedia has several pages devoted to essentially similar attacks, e.g. The Moscow US Embassy "Great Seal" attack ^[1] or the Washington DC USSR embassy "Xerox 914" attack. ^[2] Cshenorr (talk) 20:46, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

Keep The AR 924 is undoubtedly the most famous pager in the world today, and in any case even before the explosions it was one of the most famous, as demonstrated by the sales figures and the fact that Hezbollah chose this model, which was therefore already known in some countries where the mobile network is not as developed. It certainly owes its current fame to recent events, in the same way as the iPhone 16, which for now is only famous because it was released 10 days ago and no one is surprised that it has a separate entry.--Giammarco Ferrari (talk) 15:51, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete no one has provided any example of which sources meet WP:NPRODUCT. If someone is looking for this pager model they will be interested in the pager attacks where this is already mentioned. Traumnovelle (talk) 02:12, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Cullen328. Senior Captain Thrawn (talk) 22:10, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep After the edits made to the article, the article clearly improved in its content and references. There is no doubt that there is no greater reason for its deletion, considering the current state of the article, which has improved quite a bit, significantly. 181.197.42.150 (talk) 03:23, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting this discussion as I don't see a consensus yet. A few remarks though. As Sirfurboy states, there has been very little discussion on sources that would demonstrate notability rather than this pager just being "in the news". I will mention that since its nomination at AFD, this article has doubled in size. As an aside, it might be useful to not think of this article as about a pager and instead about a military weapon. We have plenty of articles about specific military weapons, from rifles to bombs and tanks, so that might be a better comparison than comparing to other articles about tech devices.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:33, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Doesn't meet notability for products. Coverage is largely from the last few days, nothing before this time. Non-notable product a week ago, nothing sustained. Unless this happens again with the same product, I don't see notability at this time. There were also Icom radios used, so this article doesn't represent the entirety of the story. Oaktree b (talk) 00:40, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I don't necessarily think of this as a weapon, it was one of two used in the attack (the other being an Icom radio). It could be written about under the pager explosions article where we can cover both items used in the attack. My concern is also that there is no information about the "walkie talkies" used in the same attack; I can't see neutrality when we so extensively cover one of the two items used, while completely ignoring the second. Oaktree b (talk) 15:49, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hallo. Then write an entry about the second. Giammarco Ferrari (talk) 01:02, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's even less sourcing about the Icom radios, they aren't that popular to be honest. Oaktree b (talk) 23:25, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - The article has been expanded significantly since the RFD and its subject matter is notable due to its involvement in a major geopolitical event. --Posted by Pikamander2 (Talk) at 10:31, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to 2024 Lebanon pager explosions. Despite repeated requests for sources, none have been discussed here, and I do not believe WP:NPRODUCT is met nor WP:GNG for an article about this model of a pager. I'll get to sourcing in a moment. I have read all the arguments above, and I am most impressed by Petri Krohn's argument that this specific pager was built only as a weapon. If it were true that the whole company were set up specifically to deliver this attack through this licensed pager model, and that the pager model had no other purpose than to deliver this attack then there would be a strong argument that it meets GNG. But, we don't actually know that is true at this stage. If this were merely a pager model that was modified in this particular shipment, then the pager model is simply not the weapon. Any pager would do. But despite waiting this long to !vote, I do not see that this matter has been clearly established. We do have one source in the article: [34]. The New York Times report on an intelligence briefing that alleges there was a complex Israeli manufacturing front that even shipped pagers to normal clients. But we remain too close to this event. That briefing may not be correct. I have unanswered questions. How could Israel know that Hezbollah would purchase that model? There are possible answers to that. Someone working for Israel involved in that purchasing decision in Hezbollah for instance. But we just do not know. There are no secondary sources here. And for the avoidance of doubt, I would not accept the NY Times reporting of the intelligence briefing as a suitable historical secondary source. There is a briefing, clearly primary. There is a newspaper that tells us what the briefing said. That is a discursive primary source because it is simply recounting the detail of the primary source without synthesis. The Guardian does the same, this time quoting the NY Times [35]. And those are the only two sources that provide anything that would make the pagers notable rather than the attack. All the other sources are clearly about the attack itself. Moreover the attack did not only affect these pagers but also walkie talkies using the same attack vector. The attack is clearly notable, and we must cover it. But we also need to think of the reader. Even if it is true that every single device of this model number was made by Israeli intelligence, we still have a WP:PAGEDECIDE issue. Because readers need to be directed to the page that best answers their information need, and web pages that link people off a primary page, and require the reader to read a second page to fill the gaps, will not serve that information need as well as a page that brings all the information together in context. The merge target discusses this pager by model number. Everything that is known about and can be said about this pager model can exist on the target page. The reader is best served by having this information there. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 12:12, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I prefer to err on the side of inclusion for something that was part of a famous event. There are details in this article about the device that don't belong in the article about the explosions. --rogerd (talk) 20:14, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device)

[2] ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Monopoly

[1]

[2]