Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Bands and musicians

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Bands and musicians

Franja de Gaza

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No sources other than self-sources since 2009. Based on the lack of sources, it looks not notable. Brunnaiz (talk) 22:17, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Jennifer Terran

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Long-term concerns about notability, no chart success, very little in-depth coverage. An interview from 1997 was conducted by SoCal radio station KCRW[1] but interviews do not count toward notability. This UnCut album review from 2003 doesn't cover the artist's life or career; it just calls her an "independently-minded pianist-songwriter". The Sputnik page about Terran has no signed author. It appears to have been written by a family member. AllMusic's page about Terran does not have a signed prose review, indicating less notability. And none of Terran's albums have a signed prose review on AllMusic. The 2008 interview with Full Circle magazine cannot count toward notability; in any case it is a essentially a blog post published through Google's Blogger platform. Binksternet (talk) 23:16, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: No sources found for this singer, nothing in Gnewspapers, Gnews or a book search. I don't think she's gotten the critical notice we require. Oaktree b (talk) 00:22, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete:subject lack references to meet WP:GNG Tesleemah (talk) 05:22, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bologna Violenta

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Sources on page consist of databases and a self-authored piece, so no notability there. The artist's Italian-language article doesn't seem to offer anything better. I was able to find this article which appears to be primarily about the artist, and these two which I think are only passing mentions (hard to tell because I can't read Italian). If those are indeed just passing mentions, then it appears we've only got one valuable source, and notability isn't met. I wouldn't be surprised if there's more to be found, especially in Italy-specific archives that I don't have access to, but as is this does not meet our standards. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 19:23, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Magnet Man

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promotional..notability in doubt SINGS09 (talk) 03:11, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Disagree with this nomination, particularly no evidence of a WP:BEFORE. The article does need some cleanup but that's no reason for deletion. There is enough coverage, including of awards and platinum sales, from independent sources to meet WP:MUSICBIO. ResonantDis_tortion 09:43, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ulugʻbek Shodibekov

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Not notable either per WP:NACTOR or WP:SINGER. An earlier version of the article falsely claimed that he has received the State Nihol Award. It's not a state award, nor does the cited (and unreliable) source mention anything about any award. Furthermore, the sources cited in the entry entirely lack WP:RELIABILITY.

Kun: an interview with the subject of the entry.
Malumot: a Wordpress blog (with an incorrectly spelled name).
Savol-javob: another Wordpress blog with no credible standing.
Daryo: another interview with the subject of the article.
Uzmedia: a highly unreliable entertainment blog.

Lastly, it is worth noting that his entry has also been proposed for deletion on the Uzbek Wikipedia. Nataev ^talk 15:50, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Torbjørn Schei

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No sources cited in the article since its creation in 2016, fails WP:BIO and ~~WP:SINGER~~WP:BANDMEMBER. Mika1h (talk) 19:44, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Poonam Jhawer

AfDs for this article:

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No sign of meeting WP:NACTOR or WP:GNG. Tagged for notability since a couple of weeks after it was created, over a year ago. A WP:BEFORE search yielded nothing at all. bonadea contributions talk 19:05, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep- meets WP:NACTOR with her significant roles in Aanch and OMG.-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 19:33, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On what do you base the claim that she had a significant role in Aanch? The only secondary and independent source in that article (a review of the film) doesn't even mention her. In OMG, her role was not insignificant, but also not a major role. --bonadea contributions talk 06:56, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not lead but significant, you surely mean? https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/hindi/bollywood/news/female-spiritual-leader-inspired-poonam-jhawars-role/articleshow/16587850.cms she; is obviously in the main cast of Aanch, given the character she plays, hard to call the role not significant https://www.tvguide.com/movies/aanch/cast/2000123959/ -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 08:08, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Again, WP:NACTOR does not mean someone is inherently notable. It means that coverage is likely to exist if they meet one of those conditions. The sources still need to be present and unfortunately they are not in this case. The TOI reference on the page is a short mention, the second is unreliable, the third is TABLOID and based on social media or information provided by the subject. The above TOI is more about the show and not here so just a brief mention and TV Guide only confirms a role. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:21, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

HOPE (band)

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I can find nothing to speak of to support the notability of this band, for which the cited sources seem to be scraping the bottom of some local punk rock scene barrel. BD2412 T 02:09, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Joan Catoni Conlon

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Doesn't meet WP:NACADEMIC. Esprit15d • talk • contribs 15:09, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete No indication of her work making a significant impact. Mentioned in only in a journal or two being interviewed and isn't cited much. OzzyOlly (talk) 17:02, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Weak keep I have started adding in reviews of her work and some lifetime achievement recognition of her work. DaffodilOcean (talk) 16:42, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Bastard Fairies

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This band doesn't appear to be notable. There's an AllMusic biography and an AllMusic review of their only album. Most of the sources used in the article don't even mention the band, and PlugInMusic doesn't seem to be a reliable source. toweli (talk) 12:45, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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I'd vote "keep" for the band name alone, but alas it's definitely a Delete. Fails WP:NMUSIC with no notable discography, awards or label work. And for being about a rock band, there's nothing about their music in the article, instead focusing on a documentary film and some meaningless YouTube video, not to mention being full of useless fluff and terrible sourcing. 💥Casualty ^{• Hop along. •} 04:25, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Along with the Allmusic citations above, there is sigcov available on TWL. This includes a full page article in the Native Peoples Magazine,^[1] a 1300 word article in Morning Call,^[2] and a CD review of Momento Mori from the Calgary Herald.^[3]. That's more than WP:THREE thus meets WP:GNG. ResonantDis_tortion 17:15, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Richie Rosenberg

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WP:NOTINHERITED. Known only for working in other people's bands with no notability as individual musician. Sources are all primary while he's not even mentioned in Conan O'Brien's article despite their long association, so a redirect would not be recommended. 💥Casualty ^{• Hop along. •} 07:33, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Pranjal Dahiya

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A WP:PROMO biography of an Indian singer/TikTok personality. Fails WP:GNG, WP:NBIO, WP:NMUSIC and frankly WP:V with universally unreliable sources. Even after an editor expanded the piece and declined the PROD, the sources are her own official bios (here, here), a spam page on a furniture website (?), a user-generated genealogy site, a dead link that was never archived, and WP:TRIVIALMENTIONS and gossip page mentions in unbylined, unreliable sources per WP:NEWSORGINDIA (here, here, here). My WP:BEFORE search turns up a few similar unbylined sources in Indian tabloid pages but no independent, reliable WP:SIGCOV to contribute to any notability guideline. Dclemens1971 (talk) 20:55, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Per nom with good source analysis. Subject fails WP:NACTOR with no significant coverage in secondary independent reliable sources on subject's achievement and career, worthy of notice. Page also reads as WP:PROMO. RangersRus (talk) 11:35, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or redirect. Delete or Redirect to the Music of Haryana I gave it a try to improve, although agree with the nominator. Del per not meeting the WP:DEPTH and WP:SYNTH.®asteem Talk

Mong-Lan

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This article looks like an autobiography, with all references from her website. Not sure if this person meets WP:GNG. Cherry Cotton Candy (talk) 13:09, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment - at first glance she appears notable, but I will look deeper into the sources, as well as potential sources in a BEFORE search within the next few days before iVoting. It appears there are several SPA's who have worked on the article, however, that may or may not mean it's an autobio, which while strongly frowned upon, is not forbidden - if the person is notable. It may have influenced the neutrality of the article, so if it turns out that they meet notability criteria and the article is kept, it may need to be cleaned up. Netherzone (talk) 23:02, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - this was my "last article before bed" AfD so I don't want to go down the complete rabbit hole it would take to make a definitive statement, but just from being adjacent to the poetry and translation world for a few years, the Pushcart prize is a big deal. It's not at the MacArthur/Oscar/Pulitzer level of presumed notability/speedy keep, but it's not a run-of-a-mill everyone pretty good has one at all. There are parts of the bio that probably don't help notability (the musical compositions have no publishers that would contribute to GNG or a music note), but the poetry looks more like it does -- Best American Poetry and the Pushcart anthology are quite heavy hitters. (If for some reason I don't get time to return to this, my gut is Keep). -- Michael Scott Asato Cuthbert (talk) 09:40, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: She has received more than three independent book reviews of more than one book, so I would argue she meets NAUTHOR. Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 06:21, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, met GNG before the nomination and with the added sources and work on the page since the nomination, good to go (stay). Randy Kryn (talk) 10:34, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:HEY. Thank User:Significa liberdade for cleaning up and adding sources for this article. Cherry Cotton Candy (talk) 14:20, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jonny Griffiths

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Mathematician who self-publishes by the looks of it. Fails WP:SIGCOV. UPE. Fails WP:BIO. Its likely him. scope_creep^Talk 14:16, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment Wow, that's a lot of Lulu.com books. It's conceivable in principle that a self-published book could be article-worthy in its own right or contribute to the article-worthiness of the author if it were well-reviewed, but so far I haven't found any indications of that happening here. XOR'easter (talk) 23:41, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Harvey and the Wallbangers, the band he belonged to, which might be notable. I can find no notability for his mathematics teaching or publications (such as reviews of his self-published books). —David Eppstein (talk) 05:59, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Harvey and the Wallbangers, as suggested by David Eppstein. His books are all self-published (which can become notable but is rare). Bearian (talk) 01:56, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pagan Lorn

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Lack of notability. Only stuff I could find was either self-published or inadequate for the purpose of establishing notability. TheLongTone (talk) 13:24, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. I was unable to find any secondary sources. Luxembourg is small but Germany is close by. Geschichte (talk) 02:03, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sascha Georges

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Cant't see any claim to notability; the band for which he sang is (imo) non-notable & up for deletion, otherwise I would redirect. TheLongTone (talk) 13:26, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Oppose, News presenter of the main TV channel in Luxembourg and of a famous band there as well…, for Luxembourg standards he is quite notable. V.B.Speranza (talk) 18:00, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We are interested in sources that show that notability. We would be happy if you shared some. Geschichte (talk) 01:56, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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comment Famous band? You are kidding.TheLongTone (talk) 11:42, 1 October 2024 (UTC) I also see that the only refs you have come up with are to self-published stuff about this entirely non-notable band. Plus a run of the mill entry from the TV station for which he works.TheLongTone (talk) 11:44, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It’s famous in Luxembourg, I assume you aren’t from there… originally, when I made the article, I simply translated the original article at the Lëtzebuerg Wikipedia to English and added a couple more sources and an info box. I just don’t see what the fuss is about here… V.B.Speranza (talk) 18:23, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If is famous in Luxembourg you should be able to add some solid sources to the article. At present there is nothing there to indicate any notability.TheLongTone (talk) 14:46, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete due to falling short of WP:GNG. Given that the article mentions a few roles in various notable-or-maybe-notable works, deletion to allow for search results seems more appropriate than redirection (and noting that Pagan Lorn, Georges' band, is also currently at AfD). _signed,Rosguill ^talk 15:26, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nana (entertainer, born 2001)

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Article does not establish individual notability outside of her band activities per WP:BANDMEMBER and WP:ENTERTAINER RachelTensions (talk) 09:02, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom. orangesclub 🍊 00:02, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Wooah: as per WP:BANDMEMBER. 98𝚃𝙸𝙶𝙴𝚁𝙸𝚄𝚂 ^{[𝚃𝙰𝙻𝙺]} 12:06, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mark Kelley (bassist)

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This person fails WP:BANDMEMBER, article should be redirected to The Roots. For a longer rationale, see the reply I gave to the article creator after my initial redirection. Mach61 23:55, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep A similar AfD happened recently for another member of The Roots and The Tonight Show Band, see: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kamal Gray. There, another editor, User:Tau Corvi made a keep argument, which also applies here. "Per WP:MUSIC a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles is notable. Gray is a member of The Roots and The Tonight Show Band, both have WP articles." Hexatekin (talk) 14:54, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, my argument was for a redirect, but in the end, the article was kept. Tau Corvi (talk) 17:06, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah sorry for that yes I see now your argument was for a redirect for the Kamal Gray article, but in the end it was kept. Hexatekin (talk) 19:41, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Hexatekin "The Roots" and "The Tonight Show Band" are currently one-and-the-same, this argument is clearly against the spirit of WP:BAND#C6. Mach61 18:07, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alright well I added another source and I will attempt to add more sources in the next few days, as I do believe he has been written about a bunch over the past 15ish years since joining The Roots. Hexatekin (talk) 19:42, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Hexatekin

The sources you added consist of:

A non-independent interview with Premier Guitar
An OkayPlayer that, like the Inquierer article previously mentioned has little to say of Kelley himself
Another No Treble album announcement that has little to say about Kelley

Mach61 14:34, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tonya Kelly

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Subject fails WP:MUSICBIO, I did WP:BEFORE on Google, Archive.org, and Newspapers.com but wasn't able to find anything that would make them notable other then the musical group they were apart of. There are two sources in the article now one from R&B Haven that is about the band Jade that she was apart of and another from the Houston Chronicle about how she wasn't a part of a tour with Jade. Dr vulpes (Talk) 19:06, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: No enough reliable and independent sources to establish notability. Ibjaja055 (talk) 21:53, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Redirect to Jade (R&B group), of which she as a member. There’s only two sources, one of which is about the band, and one about herself. Bearian (talk) 23:50, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tim Harries

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The article as it stands is unsourced. The assertion of notability relies on WP:INHERITed notability from the bands with which he has played, not on WP:MUSICBIO. Those with VRTS access can see ticket:2024091010008831. Cabayi (talk) 10:38, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Previous WP:PROD candidate, ineligible for soft deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 11:02, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

DJ Ravish

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Fails WP:MUSICBIO, WP:SIGCOV. References are stitched together using event listing, profiles,WP:SPS sources, clickbait sites, social media refs and interviews. No indication of significance. scope_creep^Talk 07:44, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 11:04, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Gregory Wings

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Promo UPE article. Refs are paid for PR, non-bylined content and promo articles. Fails WP:SIGCOV. scope_creep^Talk 20:22, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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There is a little coverage in The Source[2] and quite a bit about his involvement in a failed Burna Boy concert in South Africa, although the latter could be viewed as WP:1E, plus the LA Weekly coverage. It seems marginal, and the article needs a lot of work. But one or two more sources could save it. --Colapeninsula (talk) 10:25, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep I agree, there is decent coverage and this can be improved not deleted. Gwatakwata (talk) 09:25, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gwatakwata:@Colapeninsula: Can you give me two other sources that prove he is notable. The LA Weekly coverage is a good WP:SECONDARY but it is single reference and is likely only seen a WP:OR. WP:BLP which states "Wikipedia must get the article right. Be very firm about the use of high-quality sources" means must have good sources. Another two and I close this. Thanks. scope_creep^Talk 10:07, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:42, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment/question It looks to me like the TimesLive and Sunday World articles are substantial. From what I can learn on the sites themselves, both seem to have suitable stature in their markets. User:scope_creep, do you have information that would lead us to conclude that these are not reliable sources? Thanks. Lamona (talk) 05:34, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The TimesLive one looks like an interview containing several quotes by him, copied verbatim, which make the majority of the article along with an image supplied by him. The Sundayworld is another similar type of thing. They have use him image from instagram. It may better but I don't know, hence this Afd. They seem particularly independent. scope_creep^Talk 09:17, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pink Peg Slax

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Fails WP:MUSICBIO, WP:SIGCOV. No coverage. scope_creep^Talk 09:51, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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I'm struggling with this because according this blurb which is repeated on various sites, they've been featured in NME on at least five occasions which if true, probably is SIGCOV. But there's no date or issue number to help actually find those sources. -- D'n'B-t -- 08:17, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:02, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Scattered mentions in books [3], [4] but I don't find enough to build an article. Sourcing now used in the article isn't enough, mostly imdb. Oaktree b (talk) 15:38, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Paul Boross

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Doesn't meet WP:CREATIVE with only minor roles in various TV and music. I can't find any sources getting close to discussing him. This is just the latest iteration in attempts to promote him as a speaker going back to 2014 (I've already removed that). SmartSE (talk) 08:07, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: No RS available which cover the topic significantly, to establish notability. Ratekreel (talk) 21:51, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect - the subject is not notable for doing any of his various endeavors, except for Morris Minor and the Majors. I won’t be broken up if it’s outright deleted, but a redirect is a reasonable option. Bearian (talk) 19:24, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 08:21, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect To Morris Minor and the Majors. Hmr (talk) 08:03, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

John Cooke (musician)

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Lots of passing mentions for the man and an interview but nothing else. Fails WP:SIGCOV. scope_creep^Talk 07:04, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Venomous Concept, the one band for which he has been a consistent long-term member, and for which he is most often mentioned in the music media. Otherwise he is one of those pro working musicians who has filled in with various bands when needed and worked some session and solo projects, but remains little-covered in his own right. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 13:35, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 07:24, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Three of the sources are about him directly, I think that covers WP:SIGCOV. Mewhen123 (talk) 12:03, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mewhen123: What three sources are there. Can you point them out please. scope_creep^Talk 13:20, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stormark, Ella. "INTERVIEW: NAPALM DEATH'S JOHN COOKE". orangeamps. Retrieved 20 July 2024.
Rigs of Death Metal (16 November 2021). Rig talk with John Cook of Napalm Death. Retrieved 20 July 2024 – via YouTube.
Childers, Chad (4 October 2018). "Napalm Death's John Cooke on Journey From Driver to Guitarist". Loudwire. Retrieved 20 July 2024.
Loudwire (3 October 2018). Napalm Death's John Cooke Plays His Favorite Riffs. Retrieved 20 July 2024 – via YouTube.

Here they are, in fact there are four. Mewhen123 (talk) 13:26, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Interviews can't establish notability as they are WP:PRIMARY and both non-social media websites. Social media can't be used in this manner to establish notability. Its not on. On the BLP policy page it states "Be very firm about the use of high-quality sources". None of these are proper WP:SECONDARY sources that are needed for a WP:BLP. scope_creep^Talk 14:19, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Gary Lefkowith

AfDs for this article:

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Lots of passing mentions for BLP. Potentially notable.Fails WP:SIGCOV.WP:BIO scope_creep^Talk 20:51, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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I don’t see how being connected to India is a valid reason to delete. Please clarify. Bearian (talk) 19:01, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Bearian: I'm not sure really, three days ago. Ignore. scope_creep^Talk 19:15, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Deolane Bezerra

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Refs fail WP:SIRS. Possibly notable for Operation Integration, but that would mean just WP:BIO1E, so fails WP:BIO. - UtherSRG (talk) 21:45, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Per WP:RECENTISM. There is nothing notable about her, other than being investigated for a crime. Svartner (talk) 00:03, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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I only created a stub so others could expand. The original article has 66 sources. It's not just a crime, she has a lot more to add. At least draftify again so I can work it a little more. Web-julio (talk) 03:14, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Would this be your !vote to keep or draftify? Draft space is indeed the right place to work on an article when it is currently lacking enough sources. Please take this knowledge to your future self when working on other drafts. I agree that returning the article to draft is an acceptable alternative to deletion. - UtherSRG (talk) 11:50, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify per above discussion. This is a case of WP: BITE. Bearian (talk) 18:57, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep she is clearly notable for more than just her recent legal issues; see pt:Deolane Bezerra. Skyshiftertalk 12:49, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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What about that @Bearian @UtherSRG @Svartner Web-julio (talk) 02:29, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not opposed to draftify. Svartner (talk) 02:32, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I stand by drafting as WP:ATD. - UtherSRG (talk) 11:01, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see why draftication would be needed considering the article's current state. It clearly shows notability and seems to be in good shape for mainspace. Skyshiftertalk 11:15, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep this article can be expanded by translating information from her pt:Deolane Bezerra article, which is more detailed. She also has articles in two other languages, French and Catalan, so I don't see draftification as an option. This article will also improve Wikipedia representation of the Global South. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 19:08, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lika Bibileishvili

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Non-notable classical musician. Feels WP:TOOSOON. Page lacks WP:RS and so does not meet WP:MUSICBIO. Could not find any RS via WP:BEFORE. Cabrils (talk) 02:10, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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There are a few hits on Google news and books, but nothing in newspapers. Odd. Bearian (talk) 21:16, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Emily Roberts

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I am nominating this to become a redirect to the subject's band, The Last Dinner Party; I choose not to do this unilaterally because NPP reviewer Ipigott re-reviewed it after I unreviewed it. None of the article's current citations show WP:BANDMEMBER being met; they consist of two insta posts, two interviews, the subject's webpage, and a performance listing. My WP:BEFORE search showed coverage in the context of the band and interviews, not enough to meet BANDMEMBER. Mach61 16:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to move it back.--Ipigott (talk) 17:39, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ipigott Eh, If I've already started the AfD, I may as well see it to completion. I assume you mean't "feel free to unilaterally redirect the page", since the page was never moved. Mach61 18:49, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It started out as a redirect on 2 February 2024 as can be seen from the article's history.--Ipigott (talk) 07:08, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: The article presents significant background which extends beyond her membership of The Last Dinner Party band.--Ipigott (talk) 07:17, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Ipigott It uses non-independent sources to do, which isn't enough to show that she should have a standalone article. If a notable band had a detailed biography of each of its members on its official biogrpahy, we'd have enough information to presents significant background which extend beyond [their] membership for every person in it, yet writing a standalone articles for each one would still be inappropriate. Mach61 23:29, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep: According to the article, Roberts was member of a large number of bands and also performed as solo artist, so the article's content should not be merged into The Last Dinner Party. It's true that the current sources are not sufficient for this, however, if we believe the article's claims are not plain wrong I think it is possible to improve that. (My personal Google searches show a large number of hits, however due to the fact that I'm living in Germany Google gives me mostly German sources which are not helpful here.) --Cyfal (talk) 10:32, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Cyfal

Roberts was member of a large number of bands Yes, but only TLDP is notable, so no WP:BAND#C6 qualification

and also preformed as solo artist And as I explained in my source analysis she is not independently notable as one

if we believe the article's claims are not plain wrong I think it is possible to improve that As stated in the nomination I already looked for better sources and found none. The burden of proof is on those who wish to keep the article. Mach61 14:51, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: If the article is kept, a lot of false links should be corrected because there exist also a footballer Emily Roberts (e.g., 2018–19 FA Women's League Cup). --Cyfal (talk) 10:48, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello - in case of interest, I have now cleaned up the incoming links as you suggest, and added information on the solo career Chaiten1 (talk) 15:08, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep/Merge to The Last Dinner Party. Her notability stems solely from the being a member of the band, and if the fluff was removed, the key facts could probably be covered adequately in the (currently fairly short) article on the band. The content here is encyclopedic in part, so what can be properly sourced should be retained. --Michig (talk) 13:16, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The keep !votes above are incredibly weak and should all be disregarded. The first one is a form of WP:Subjective importance, the second one is more of the same plus WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES, and the third one is WP:INHERITED. The astounding part is these arguments originate from established editors with long tenure and high edit counts. Can anyone arguing to keep this article actually show significant coverage about the subject from independent secondary reliable sources? Also, German sources are fully valid per WP:NONENG, but the coverage needs to be proven, not merely asserted. Left guide (talk) 19:32, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment:The current article is highly promotional and reads like PR. It actually increases the suspicion that TLDP are industry plants. --Ef80 (talk) 13:54, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: We should inform, not obscure. Tiny Particle (talk) 17:21, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia does not aim to contain all knowledge. Mach61 18:04, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to The Last Dinner Party per nomination. Opposed to merging given 1. the nature of the sources and 2. I don't believe this info fits within the scope of the band's article. It would be fine to include in this article if independent notability were established, but I don't believe it's remotely close in this state. Seconding Left guide's assessment of above votes. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 23:17, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The only sources I could find that are independent, reliable, and predominantly about Emily Roberts (as opposed to The Last Dinner Party) are: this review of her EP in Jazz Journal, and an article and an interview in Guitar World. Both of those publications are on our list of reliable sources at WP:RSMUSIC. I can't decide whether she just about scrapes WP:MUSICBIO - that's why I'm writing this as a comment. In any case, the current article is too promotional (is she really "known for...her eclectic musical influences"?).

GanzKnusper (talk) 09:16, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Neither the GW interview nor the article move the needle much (actually, the article is mostly quotes anyways), but the Jazz Journal review definitely does. If 1-2 more sources like that are found I might change to a weak keep. Mach61 16:29, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Those arguing for keep may want to try to reduce the promo tone of the article, which is a major concern of the non-keep participants here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, asilvering (talk) 18:51, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I've deleted a lot promo tone expressions now. --Cyfal (talk) 21:26, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep. The article is better now, but there are still WP:NOTABILITY concerns. --Ef80 (talk) 11:09, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: edited again for tone; included several new references that explictly comment on Roberts, and on her performance style.Chaiten1 (talk) 07:42, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Myron Rosander

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A cool person in the marching arts, but he sadly does not have any coverage save for a mention of death and an induction into a governing body's hall of fame. Why? I Ask (talk) 12:47, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Membership in the DCI hall of fame is the greatest honor one can achieve in the activity.

Also I edited the article to include additional references such as his listing in the Vanguard Hall of Fame, a bio in GPG Music, and Phantom Regiment's announcement of when he joined their staff.

Myron was a person who avoided the spotlight but was still well known and recognized in an activity that itself has very little outside coverage. He dedicated over thirty years of his life to pushing the artistic boundaries of this activity and deeply shaping the individuals who participated in it with him. You can see evidence of that in his DCI Hall of Fame Induction video at 2:15: "The feelings of love and admiration were truly palpable to all in attendance (of his Vanguard Hall of Fame induction ceremony). Indeed on that Saturday morning, Vanguard Hall was packed with friends and former members from Myron's history in drum corps." Also in Halftime Magazine's epitaph, Santa Clara Vanguard alum, Jeremy Van Wert quotes Rosander as saying, "If you think I’m here about winning a championship, you are dead wrong; I’m here because I care about the men and women you will become in the years after you leave Santa Clara Vanguard. I care about the human inside the uniform."

Especially considering the relative obscurity of the drum and bugle corps activity, I believe this depth and high level of recognition constitutes notability, per Wikipedia guidelines. Mrengy (talk) 02:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Currently, all of the sources, aside from his obituary and Hall of Fame bio, are from places where he was employed. That simply does not cut it for a biography. For an example of a person involved in drum corps that is also notable, see Bill Bachman. The difference between Rosander and Bachman is that Bachman has tertiary and secondary sources from reputable magazines and scholarly journals that discuss his work. Why? I Ask (talk) 02:27, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Brosthrone

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Fail WP:NSINGER. There is literally nothing to inherently confer that here, and no source to establish WP:GNG. I looked through the sources and all I could find is unreliable PRs and advertorials for a more or less up-and-coming singer-songwriter. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:56, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep : Subject notable with their major 'single' release, also few reliable independent sources mention them in their newspapers. Tesleemah talk 07:36, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment sources aren't great, might be WP:TOOSOON.-KH-1 (talk) 01:58, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep : Subject is notable as per WP:SINGER. Mevoelo talk 08:34, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Elo, which criteria does it satisfy? Best, reading beans 11:26, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The subject has received coverage of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country; has a song that gained national recognition; and has even featured several other independent top-rated artists, sources also show notability. Still working on improving the article by adding more sources. Best, Mevoelo (talk) 11:44, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Do we have sources to back up these keep !votes?
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Delete: Non-notable artist. The references are subpar and does not seem to qualify GNG. The rationales claimed by the creator of the article for meeting WP:NSINGER is not found anywhere; there’s been no recognition for an international concert tour, or a national tour nor is there any recognition for this upcoming artist in Nigeria (unless there’s any national recognition). This WP:TOOSOON, IMO. B.Korlah (talk) 06:06, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: insufficient coverage in reliable, independent sources, which indicates a lack of notability and relevance for leavr on Wikipedia --Jiaoriballisse (talk) 14:28, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~ per a lack of significant coverage in reliable, independent sources, which suggests that it does not meet the notability criteria --Jiaoriballisse (talk) 14:31, 3 October 2024 (UTC) (striking duplicate vote. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:53, 4 October 2024 (UTC))[reply]
@Jiaoriballisse Hi there. Strike one of your !vote please, you just made a duplicate !vote. I know it is an oversight :) Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:54, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Sources present and in a search for more sources do not satisfy the general notability criteria. Best, Reading Beans 14:13, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Helen Donaldson

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Tagged for BLP sourcing issues since 2018. Not clear that the subject passes WP:GNG. 4meter4 (talk) 15:36, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Fails WP:MUSICBIO. Only the first Google news hit seems decent, but otherwise seems coverage mainly for namesakes. LibStar (talk) 23:44, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Satisfies WP:NACTOR with her stage roles [5], specifically: 1. touring with The Pirates of Penzance as Mabel [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] (multiple reviews at each of these stops). A recording of one of the shows was also released [11], the soundtrack of it won a 1995 ARIA Award. 2. touring with The Mikado as Yum Yum [12] [13]. 3. touring with H.M.S. Pinafore as Josephine [14] (not just the highlighted section) [15] [16] (recording also released). 4. touring with A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum as Philia [17] [18] "Forum Is Light Musical Theatre At Its Very Best", The Canberra Times, 2 April 1999 - Vincent, Jeremy (4 January 1999), "Revival revels in farce, not class", The Australian. She is the prime focus of articles Brown, Phil (23 July 2008), "Back to the start", Brisbane News and Kelly, Patricia (26 June 2004), "Family puts a song in Helen's well-travelled heart", Courier Mail. duffbeerforme (talk) 12:28, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Would you please cite the sources (and add the missing noteworthy facts) in the article itself? -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:27, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Duffbeerforme. -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:28, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Delete Fails WP:MUSICBIO.181.197.42.215 (talk) 02:43, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Duffbeerforme; meets GNG. - SchroCat (talk) 05:22, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - concurring with Duffbeerforme, Ssilvers and Schrocat. Tim riley talk 11:03, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Karine Babajanyan

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Lacks inline citations. Sources listed mostly lack independence from the subject. Not clear that the subject passes WP:GNG. 4meter4 (talk) 16:40, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - musician who has toured widely in major soprano roles. The article needs work, but it’s not so bad it needs to be Re-created from scratch. Bearian (talk) 19:10, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Verkine Karakashian

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Fails WP:SIGCOV. 4meter4 (talk) 16:45, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. No refs. If any coverage of this person ever surfaces, it would take exactly 10 minutes to write a better article. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:35, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: There is a book reference in the article. I would suggest to keep the article, unless someone actually provided an assessment of its coverage. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 20:14, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@TheJoyfulTentmaker That is not a valid policy based keep vote. WP:SIGCOV requires multiple sources with independent significant coverage, which we generally interpret at AFD is a minimum of three sources. One book source, no matter how in-depth does not meet our notability guidelines.4meter4 (talk) 20:39, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I kindly disagree, a single book may indicate existence of more sources. Even without references, deletion nominators are expected to do a good faith WP:BEFORE: to check Google, Google Books, Google Scholar, and Wikipedia Library if possible. AfD is not a place to urge people to fix unreferenced articles. Nomination must come only after there are good indicators that the subject is not notable, regardless of the state of the article; as stated in WP:NEXIST. Sorry for repeating these in multiple nominations of yours, but there are not enough people watching these nominations about niche topics like this one, and I honestly believe it will be a loss for the encyclopedia if these are prematurely deleted. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 21:40, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@CeeGee I think you created the article, pinging just in case you were not notified. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 21:53, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We need other sources, suggesting that they exist isn't helpful Oaktree b (talk) 23:53, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@TheJoyfulTentmaker You seem to be misinterpreting policy language. WP:SIGCOV requires multiple sources as a non-negotiable criteria for all wikipedia articles. It's a must and its policy. Period. WP:NEXIST requires people voting to keep articles to produce multiple sources at the time of making a keep argument at an AFD. Asserting there are sources through guesswork is not following NEXIST; nor is arguing for keep based on a book you personally have not seen. Providing sources with url links or the names, publication dates, and pages of specific sources that you personally have looked at is following NEXIST. As for me, I looked at several standard opera reference works, including a Russian language music encyclopedia and found nothing on this person. My attempt at BEFORE may not be perfect but please WP:AGF. Best.4meter4 (talk) 00:52, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest you re-read WP:SIGCOV because it doesn't say what you think it does. The immediate subsection doesn't mention the number of sources but a bit further it says "Sources" should be secondary sources, as those provide the most objective evidence of notability. There is no fixed number of sources required since sources vary in quality and depth of coverage, but multiple sources are generally expected. Multiple sources are not a "must" and the requirement is not "policy" (our notability documents relate to guidance rather than policy). Thincat (talk) 10:49, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Well, this source mentions this person [19], but that's all I can find. I don't think we have enough sourcing. Oaktree b (talk) 23:56, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Oaktree b Just a note: during the period she was active, The Ottoman Empire used the Arabic writing system. So search is not trivial. Even modern sources include various different spellings of her name. Trying the modern Turkish spelling Verkine Karakaşyan, I can easily find at least one journal paper. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 00:11, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I can only see a short segment from the Google Books preview, but the book you linked might have a significant coverage (there are three search hits in separate places of the book). Here is the the second one, page 67: "... Verkine Karakashian read his poem “Freedom” and moved the audience so deeply that the ceremony was repeated for several nights in a row. After this incident, gradually more young girls showed the courage to go onstage and break the ...". Seems there is more before and after this passage, and this itself probably has a citation in the book; so if anyone has access to this book it would be really helpful if you could check. Separately, I added two more sources to the article and found the ISBN number of the book, referenced by CeeGee, who created the article. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 02:52, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The Armenian wiki has some links, but I'm not in a position to say if they're RS or not. Oaktree b (talk) 00:19, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Clearly not notable Pallikari ap' ta Sfakia 17:20, 19 September 2024 (UTC) struck confirmed blocked sockpuppet, Atlantic306 (talk) 22:16, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Comment: The sourcing is improved, now we have 6 references (one thanks to @Oaktree b's Armenian Wikipedia pointer), and hopefully notability concerns are now reduced. Also, I'm curious about the opinions @Basak and @Buidhe, who are experienced editors with contributions related to Ottoman Armenians on the English or the Turkish Wikipedia. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 01:25, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Covered by several additional Turkish sources [20][21] Additional Armenian sources [22][23] The main ref in the Armenian article is the Armenian Soviet Encyclopedia. Aintabli (talk) 03:31, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I see that new relevant sources were added since the beginning of this discussion, therefore to me it is clear that the article should be kept. Of course, it’s possible to add more sources and improve the article. For example here, it’is possible to learn what were the important roles she played in her years at Güllü Agop Company and in Benliyan Operet Company: Women in Ottoman theater life — Preceding unsigned comment added by Basak (talk • contribs) 06:28, 24 September 2024 (UTC) --Basak (talk) 06:38, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, asilvering (talk) 01:35, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as per WP:HEY as the article has been significantly improved since nomination with references including an encyclopaedia and a scholarly journal, and others, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 22:19, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maria Veretenina

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The sources used are from organization websites that have a direct connection to the subject. No independent sources are used. Not clear that the subject passes WP:GNG. 4meter4 (talk) 23:56, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Women, and Estonia. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 02:06, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

comment @4meter4: isn't it excessive to add such amount of maintenance tags, especially just before nominating for deletion? Pelmeen10 (talk) 19:27, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Out of experience, I find it useful to tag problems relevant to an AFD to help guide talking points in an AFD discussion. It may aid article improvements during an AFD if a rescue is attempted, or it helps others identify sourcing problems that may confirm a lack of notability. Best.4meter4 (talk) 20:21, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some sources I managed to find: appearances on national TV and radio [24] (not original but appearance in ETV+), [25] [26] (Raadio 4) and reviews on Sirp [27] [28] and marriage. I made the search with "Maria Veretenina", but the search should be done in Russian, I think "Марии Веретениной". First results from that: long interview and another interview on Postimees but needs a paid subscription. There are more, but this should be enough to confirm it passes GNG. Pelmeen10 (talk) 20:03, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep in view of the sources identified above by Pelmeen10 which confirm national TV and radio performances and the Sirp reviews, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 20:37, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:10, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

keep as my comment before didn't include a vote. Pelmeen10 (talk) 18:23, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest not using the term "vote" in AfD's. Shadow311 (talk) 00:05, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We all use "vote" but it is generally in quotes. People understand that it is not a vote count. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:34, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Silvia Sorina Munteanu

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Tagged for BLP sourcing issues since 2012. Not clear that it passes WP:GNG. 4meter4 (talk) 17:55, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Women, and Romania. Hey man im josh (talk) 18:28, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I found an additional source here. I don't think that's enough for WP:NBIO though. Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 15:38, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Not eligible for soft deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, asilvering (talk) 22:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Cocobb8’s new source, and also this both of which cover her and her career in depth. Cocobb8, any chance you’re a Romanian speaker so you can add the information from those sources to the article. While the standard is “sources exist in the world” not “sources are currently cited in the article”, having them in there might stop this happening again…

Absurdum4242 (talk) 17:49, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Absurdum4242, did you notice that Cocobb8 might have found the source but they aren't arguing to Keep this article. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:10, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Liz I did notice that, but also thought that was because the standard was that there needed to be more than one solid source, from different outlets, which was why they were unsure? When you put theirs together with mine, together with the source cited in the article as currently written, you get three seperate sources, focused on her rather than passing mentions, separated by 8 years giving coverage over time? Also, since the deletion recommendation was on BLP grounds, I checked the applicable guidelines and they were that the article ticked off

The article doesn’t seem like Original Research, it seems to be written in a NPOV, and nothing in it was contentious or derogatory that I could tell. That just leaves Verifiability, and passing notability, with WP:MUSIC suggesting international touring was a strong sign of potential notability. Verifiability would depend on whether the sources the information was found in were reliable, and… they seem to be? Although not speaking Romanian I had to rely on Google translate there.

Am I missing something obvious? (and also thanks again for taking the time to walk me through this, when I can see from all your work on this project that you’re super busy). Absurdum4242 (talk) 05:54, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Absurdum4242, the strong sign of notability is good. Are you suggesting it is enough? They're not quite the same thing. While you might decide to hold off on nominating an article for deletion because there is a "strong sign of potential notability", by the time we're at AfD what we want to see is actual evidence of notability. You're welcome to argue that the evidence we have is indeed enough evidence, or that it's close enough to "enough evidence" that the strong potential for further sources clinches it for you. Those are valid AfD positions. But "there isn't enough here yet, but I bet there is more out there" is usually not taken as grounds for a keep. -- asilvering (talk) 18:26, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Asilvering Not suggesting that it’s enough, just running through the steps step by step. If it had failed WP:NMUSIC completely I’d have stopped there. And if the articles only mentioned local performances inside Romania, I would err on the side of her not being notable, because it’s likely at that stage that there are no sources I’m missing, whereas a verified decade long career in numerous countries, there’s a much greater chance there are other sources out there in the world. Likewise, while they don’t strictly count for notability, there were 40-50 sources with passing mentions of her performances / longer mentions from non-independent sources as well as the three independent sources that I think DO count - the sheer number of them, again over years, makes me think it’s likely that there are better sources out there that I’m just missing, especially since google isn’t great for non-English sources / a lot of arts sources are physical rather than online. Which, again, isn’t proof, but if I hadn’t seen all those extra sources, I’d have been more likely to err on the side of her not being notable, assuming I had found what was out there. Which is why I voted delete for other article which lacked all this. GIVEN all that, I was arguing along the lines you suggested - the three sources seem like enough evidence for me, especially with the added strong potential for further sources. But I’m not dogmatic about it - this was an orphaned nomination, so I thought I would at least take a look to avoid a delete close / re-listing for lack of discussion. If anyone else wants to argue deletion, I’m all for them to do so, discussion to reach consensus is the whole point of the exercise after all. Absurdum4242 (talk) 05:44, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Selva Erdener

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The article uses zero independent sources with significant coverage. Fails WP:SIGCOV. 4meter4 (talk) 15:45, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Music and Turkey. – The Grid (talk) 16:04, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Women. Shellwood (talk) 16:42, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Procedural~~ keep: I'll try to find sources if I can, but for now I suggest a ~~procedural~~ keep since this is a very low-effort nomination for an opera singer whose name I can recognize. See: WP:NEXIST, WP:BEFORE TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 20:52, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here is one source, from Hıncal Uluc's column. Many more search hits exist, but one needs to sift through them to identify SIGCOV. In addition, the SNG about musicians is likely to be satisfied here, due to concerts and records from notable firms.TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 03:06, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@TheJoyfulTentmaker That's not a valid argument for a procedural close per WP:PCLOSE. If you think that there is WP:SIGCOV, then by all means provide evidence of it here. That is what an WP:AFD discussion is for. Better yet, take time to improve the article. You may vote a straight keep based on policy but is there is no procedural argument to be made here.4meter4 (talk) 04:19, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, asilvering (talk) 22:54, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Google throws up plenty of sources, over a number of years, showing sustained coverage, but even the first citation in the article itself would have been more or less sufficient, giving evidence of an extended European Tour, satisfying WP:NMUSIC on that alone.

Absurdum4242 (talk) 17:39, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Hana Jonášová

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Tagged for BLP sourcing issues since 2012. Not clear that the subject passes WP:GNG. 4meter4 (talk) 05:37, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Women, and Czech Republic. Shellwood (talk) 10:42, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete does not seem to pass the notability criteria. AntEgo (talk) 15:46, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to her mother Jana Jonášová per WP:NOTINHERITED if sources can't be found. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 14:08, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to consider whether this article should be Deleted or Redirected to Jana Jonášová.
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Relisting comment: Need some fresh opinions.
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Michael Torontow

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Fails WP:NACTOR. Bit-part actor. scope_creep^Talk 14:13, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers and Canada. Shellwood (talk) 14:14, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Television, and Theatre. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 17:20, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. He has played the title character in Sweeney Todd, among other major characters and has been nominated for Dora Awards both as a leading actor and a director. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:57, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: seems notable enough to me, given his stage career and existing sources. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 10:35, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Commment. When I was patrolling this page, I couldn't find any pieces on him — nothing close to WP:SIGCOV — in a quality British national WP:RS, and zero outside of the UK. As a west-end actor, he is going to get mentions in the media from shows, but I can't see that the media find him particularly notable as a standalone subject? thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 10:44, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn't find either anything in previews nor any mention of him in the play reviews. It a complete mystery to me how they can jump to a keep !vote almost immediately without presenting any evidence per WP:THREE. I did a search using reliable sources search which covers the major Canadian newspapers and not a thing came up, on him. There is reviews of the plays. You would think there would be some mention outwith passing mentions. scope_creep^Talk 14:25, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And I think he is 46, so he is well advanced in his career. Aszx5000 (talk) 15:38, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think you have hit on a crucial point there. I need to remember that for the future. Almost middle-aged and no reviews. Good point. scope_creep^Talk 15:42, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: per @Ssilvers. Subject appeared in various plays have sources which support them. Thewikizoomer (talk) 16:20, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Thewikizoomer: What sources exactly. You seem to flit from Afd to Afd without providing any evidence for you keep !votes. WP:THREE is considered best practice for proving the person is notable. Do you have any reference that prove this person is notable? scope_creep^Talk 16:49, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: keep !votes would benefit from specifying which sources establish Notability here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 17:38, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Other than the CBC article about the one-man show, rest are simply confirmation of various performances... I don't consider the award terribly notable. Perhaps the Dora, rest are rather small/non-notable. I don't find additional coverage of this individual. Oaktree b (talk) 20:46, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Per my comments above, has zero WP:SIGCOV on him in any quality British RS (and nothing internationally). Is 46, so is well advanced in their career with no sign of their notability improving. Aszx5000 (talk) 15:54, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. To add to the comments above, his own website says he "is arguably most “famous” for helping remind you to switch modes on your phone in the Air Canada in-flight safety video." This is not a notable person. -- asilvering (talk) 23:58, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: notable existing sources. 181.197.42.215 (talk) 02:16, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This WP:SPA editor has made few edits to Wikipedia. scope_creep^Talk 09:49, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 11:52, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Apart from the CBC story, this article lacks WP:SIGCOV in reliable national sources. The subject fails WP:GNG. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DesiMoore (talk • contribs) 15:52, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep a quick BEFORE finds an in-depth significant media coverage - Ottawa Citizen 2004 (ProQuest 240730536; GNG met with other articles already mentioned. . A lot of other material (224 hits in Proquest!). Nfitz (talk) 01:30, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to see a bit of international coverage on the actor, some reviews, even country wide would be ideal. Torontow is an Ottawa born guy and local papers always report on their local folk. It their duty of care, if you like and a well known phenomena. It likely fails WP:AUD. scope_creep^Talk 10:54, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:AUD is reserved for companies and organisations, Atlantic306 (talk) 22:24, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is the only piece on him and it is from a minor Canadian newspaper from Ottawa, and the subject is from Ottawa. There is no SIGCOV that I can find on him as a notable person in any national RS in any country (even Canadian). Given his job is promotion, Scope Creep's reference to WP:AUD in not unreasonable. At 46, if this is all he has, he is unlikely to be a notable person in his profession of performing? His Wikipedia article would be the biggest 'plank' in his notability. thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 08:59, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. Owen× ☎ 11:37, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Matt Kean (musician)

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WP:BANDMEMBER, notability is solely inherited by being a member of Bring Me the Horizon --- FMSky (talk) 16:40, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. FMSky (talk) 16:40, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 17:20, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Bring Me the Horizon as an alternative to deletion. ✗plicit 00:12, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:MUSICBIO, demonstrates notability for point one and six. A few sources independent of the individual that show more than trivial interest, breaking down his playing style/technique, how he got started on bass in his early life and influences: [29], [30]. Point six mentions, "Is an ensemble that contains two or more independently notable musicians." Oli Sykes, Jordan Fish and Lee Malia all have individual articles showing independent notability through musical collaborations and features, as well as production. Shout4Serenity (talk) 02:18, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:BANDMEMBER:Individual members: Members of notable bands are redirected to the band's article, not given individual articles, unless they have demonstrated individual notability. --FMSky (talk) 07:55, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And you tried to remove an article when someone did demonstrate individual notability, doing so with the same argument for Lee Malia just for being a band member even though he was clearly notable. If the guideline says about this and three musicians in the band are notable in their own right outside of the band, then surely Matt Kean is protected under this guideline? Rockmusicfanatic20 (talk) 12:20, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 16:47, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The user who's previously deleted the article (without going through this process) cited WP:BANDMEMBER, which says: "Members of notable bands are redirected to the band's article, not given individual articles, unless they have demonstrated individual notability."

Individual notability through WP:MUSICBIO states that musicians are notable if: · Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself.

The content of Kean's article directed about him specifically are sourced to Music Radar, Bass, EMG Pickups, Guitar Parts and the BBC.

· Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart.

Through the band he is apart of contributes to, they have had multiple number-one albums in their home country, as well as eight different UK Top 40 Hits.

· Has had a record certified gold or higher in at least one country.

Through his band that he contributes to, has multiple platinum-selling singles and albums in their home country alone, as well as Gold records in the United States as certified by the RIAA.

· Has received non-trivial coverage in independent reliable sources of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country.

While there's nothing currently in the article about this, there are likely articles online discussing Kean on tour which should be added to help demonstrate his independent notability.

· Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years, and with a roster of performers, many of whom are independently notable)

Four of the albums he has worked on with his band have been on major labels such as RCA and Sony Music.

· Is an ensemble that contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles.

Kean is in a band with Oli Sykes, Jordan Fish and Lee Malia who are all prominent musicians who display their independent notability, through other collaborations, producing other works and music scoring for films.

· Has become one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style or the most prominent of the local scene of a city; note that the subject must still meet all ordinary Wikipedia standards, including verifiability.

Kean is a prominent bass guitarist in his genre who is well-known and has been featured on guitar magazines specifically about him as a bassist. If he wasn't notable, a guitar magazine would not be using him as the headline of the magazine.[31]

· Has won or been nominated for a major music award, such as a Grammy, Juno, Mercury, Choice or Grammy award. Note that this requires the person or band to have been the direct recipient of a nomination in their own name, and is not passed by playing as a session musician on an album whose award citation was not specifically for that person's own contributions.

He has been nominated for several Grammy's and BRIT awards, winning a BRIT award with his band for best alternative act this year.

· Has won first, second, or third place in a major music competition.

Kean has never been in a music competition, rendering this one of the only guidelines for independent notability he won't meet.

· Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, such as a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a notable compilation album.

He has performed on Channel 4's (UK Broadcasting Network) Sunday Brunch, a television show, with his band.[32]

· Has been placed in rotation nationally by a major radio or music television network.

His music has been persistently played on BBC Radio One and Kerrang! Radio for well over a decade now.

· Has been a featured subject of a substantial broadcast segment across a national radio or television network.

Kean appeared on BBC Sport's Premier League Predictions that former professional footballer Mark Lawrenson hosts.[33]

Out of all the independent notability guidelines, there are only TWO he fails to comply to. At the top of the section, it's said that: Musicians or ensembles (this category includes bands, singers, rappers, orchestras, DJs, musical theatre groups, instrumentalists, etc.) may be notable if they meet at least one of the following criteria. He follows not only one, but TEN of the twelve listed criteria, so therefore the article should be kept. Rockmusicfanatic20 (talk) 13:26, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To add to my point as per above, Matt Kean also qualifies for WP:COMPOSER. He is also credited as a song writer on some of the bands biggest hits including "Drown" (the band's only UK Top 20 single), "Throne" (UK Platinum-selling single) and "Mantra" (Australian Platinum-selling single). By virtue of this, he ticks off two of the composers criteria for notability, as well as the previous ten I've mentioned for MUSICBIO above. Rockmusicfanatic20 (talk) 20:22, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Displays notability per above points. Seacactus 13 (talk) 03:44, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The Show (band)

AfDs for this article:

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No appearance of notability. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 05:11, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Pennsylvania. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 05:11, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~ per nom and WP:GNG. Lots of information here, but trying to verify any of it turns up crickets. Article was written by a 1-edit SPA apparently to promote a 2016 tour, and has remained essentialy unchanged ever since—except for adding even more promotional material, this time in support of a new venture involving the band's front men. StonyBrook _babble 12:57, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

After considering Chubbles' comment below, and after adding those sources and others to the article, I am changing my !vote to weak keep per WP:BAND #11, which states Has been placed in rotation nationally by a major radio or music television network. The Pittsburgh City Paper and Post-Gazette mention the band's album 'having gotten some airplay in Europe' and 'was getting play in Western Europe'; perhaps we can give the benefit of the doubt as to whether the station or stations involved were major outlets in Europe—I did understand it to mean the UK and Ireland, so a large enough coverage area is involved. And while we don't exactly have the WP:3REFS necessary to satisfy the letter of the above guideline and WP:NCORP, at the very least we now have the promotional material removed, with the rest of the content backed up by multiple secondary sources. The Woodstock appearance does seem to be important, although I'm not well enough informed about these commemorational concerts. StonyBrook _babble 04:59, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Already at AFD so not eligible for Soft Deletion.
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:02, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The promotional bloat of the article is lamentable, but that's fixable. The City Paper and Post-Gazette sources substantiate the band did international tours and got international radio airplay, which is sufficient to pass WP:MUSIC. Chubbles (talk) 13:52, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:SUSTAINED and GNG. Public relations editing intentions are also rather conspicuous as mentioned in the original nomination statement. Graywalls (talk) 06:11, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Interested editors may wish to compare the nominated revision with the current revision, which has just been stripped of nearly all of its content. Chubbles (talk) 17:09, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist
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References

^ Poet, J (2008). "Keeping it Real: The Bastard Fairies". Native Peoples Magazine. 21: 64.
^ Chow, Greg (2007). "Bastards of new media ** By breaking away from major labels and dominating online, the DIY Fairies become the music industry's worst nightmare". Morning Call.
^ McCoy, Heath (9 May 2007). "The Bastard Fairies - Momento Mori". Calgary Herald.

[1] Poet, J (2008). "Keeping it Real: The Bastard Fairies". Native Peoples Magazine. 21: 64.

[2] Chow, Greg (2007). "Bastards of new media ** By breaking away from major labels and dominating online, the DIY Fairies become the music industry's worst nightmare". Morning Call.

[3] McCoy, Heath (9 May 2007). "The Bastard Fairies - Momento Mori". Calgary Herald.

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